paulb

Rai Kunimitsu is one of my favourite smiths and I have had the chance to examine a number of his blades in hand. The Jigane is fantastic and beautiful to see. I appreciate taste is very subjective but I am at a loss as to why anyone, smith or customer would choose to do this to one of his blades. https://www.aoijapan.com/img/sword/2015/151029-2.jpg As said it is a very subjective thing but does anyone think the horimono on this piece enhances it?

Hi Brian, Glad it went to a good home. When I focussed on Hizen it was one of my favourite swords. The hada, which is a highlight of the nidai was outstanding. As is often the case when trying to buy something new you have to let other pieces go and that was my only reason for parting with it.

Congratulations Grev, a great result. Enjoy it, there are few better shinto smith's than the early generations of Tadayoshi. Considering he was 19 when his Father died and he took over the business he must have been very talented and determined to achieve what he did. You have an interesting piece of history.

I have seen several really beautful Koshirae for sale on various websites for huge sums of money, some of which I would love to own. So yes there certainly appears to be a strong market for them. For very many years I focussed almost totally on blades which were/are all stored in shirasaya. I regarded koshirae as incidental. A couple of years ago when unable to consider buyng a sword I starting looking at putting koshirae together for the blades I had. Later still I displayed them on sword stands in the "sword Room". I can undersantd people wanting to collect koshirae, especially some of the earlier ones that appear, I am less comfortable with seperating a sword from it's koshirae assuming it has at some point been custom built for the blade.

H Kirill, I certainly wasn't attempting to make any accusation or put pressure on you. I simply disagreed with your last comment based on my own experience of the organisation. It would be very foolish to believe that at some point some strange or just down right wrong attributions occur. The motivation for these occurrng is anyones guess and depends on whether you are a trusting or less trusting soul. As I often quoted here before "Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity" As long as people are involved mistakes will happen. Fortunately in overall numbers terms this does not seem to be great percentage.( I accept to anyone effected being part of a small number is little consolation.) I think my main concern is when someone receives a result they are unhappy with they immediately resort to social media condemning the NBTHK or whoever and starting a hysterical witch hunt. They are not perfect but at present they are the best available and far more reliable than anything else (again personal opinion and not a criticism of other attributing bodies) Another point to consider is an example of a friend recently. He spent many hours over a number of years studying and researching a blade and reached a conclusion as to what he thinks it is, he has been studying Nihonto for 50 years or more. He submits the blade to the NBTHK and they give an answer that is far removed from his conclusion. Which is more likely to be right a meticulous study over years by a very experienced collector., or a few minutes review in front of a small committee with probably less than half the experience. You have to make that judgement for yourself.

Hi Kirill I can agree with everything else in your post but not this one. As far as I have seen the NBTHK go to great lengths to maintain their distance from any dealer and certainly do not take part in commercial activity. None of the appraisal teams are (or were) dealers. Of course I could be well out of date but I don't think that has changed

JP I am not aware of it but there was a period when some fake (not very good ones) papers appeared on Ebay. As the old style papers have been largely disgarded it didnt and shouldnt have much, if any, impact on the current organisation and papers. As John mentioned above the most common negativitiy we see is when people dont get the result they hoped for. Strange no one ever questions the competence or accuracy of the attributions if they get a better than expected result

Also the problem was with lower order papers not Juyo. As John says these were produced by regional offices whereas Juyo shinsa only took place in Tokyo. The only other issue I know of which caused a large amount of overblown comment was when the museum found a large number of swords from the war period in their cellar which they didnt know about and were unregistered. These were technically illegal and their was mass hysteria, particualrly in the West and those with a vested interest in seeing them fail. It came to nothing, no case to answer and resolved promptly.

Kirill I dont think Germany is unique for strange behaviour. I have heard various horror stories from most parts of Europe (which includes the UK!) basic problem is that national laws and customs tariffs are complicatied and often misiterpretted. I would hate to be a customs officla trying to work out whether something was legal to import and if so what the custom charges should be, it is a nightmare. Having said that the thing that really winds me up is when items are mishandled and treated badly. I recently saw a package where some bright spark had cut through the bubble wrap on a daisho so carelessly that they cut through the silk bags and scored lines in the shirasaya (both swords). This is pure neglect and incomptetence. Sorry a different topic. I'll let you back to the original thread.

Not for the first time I think you have come up with a great and inovative idea Barry. If I may I would like to introduce the idea and try it at our next regional meeting in the UK thanks for the inspiration!

Re: The Uk I was recently contacted by a senior member of an Iado association in the Uk who is in discussion with the Home Office and asked the Token of GB to help. At the moment everything is on hold because of the election and they are waiting to see who is appointed to deal with the proposed changes in legislation. As far as I am aware swords are still being shipped within the UK and to and from other areas, Europe, US etc. However the comment regarding airlines is absolutley right and some are refusing to carry swords. Also please note that although Fedex will ship swords in the USA they will not carry them in the UK and if they arrive here they will be turned round and sent back (unless something has changed in the last 6 months) All I have seen so far is additions to the dangerous weapons acts but no change to defences and exemptions which should mean antiques and traditionally made swords are legal as are those used for martial arts. the key word here is should! I have recieved swords via DHL from europe with no issue in the past few months. The situation continues to change and the shipping companies are finding it difficult to understand legislation so tend to opt on the safe side and just not ship. Hopefull we can establish some clarity in the next few months.

I think the last one is valid. Certainly when you look at a sword that is 7-800 years old in pristine condition you know it must have been valued and cherished for much of that time.

J.p. While said in humour I have heard all of your points offered as serious comment at one time or another during the past 35+ years I have been collecting From a purely personal perspective I have no doubt that Kamakura period swords are far better than anything that followed in the words of George Cameron Stone they truly are the nearest thing to perfection made by human hand and that has nothing to do with the points you suggest. They are just better

you will NEVER talk over a sword when viewing

Sorry it is too large a subject for a quick answer. There are many who believe sword making reached its peak in the 14th century. while its true there have been very many masterpiece works made aftrer this time none quite reached the level of perfection achieved by these koto smiths. The main reason for this was the raw material produced in small quantities locally. Each had slight variation and characteristics that embued a blade with unique qualities. when steel manufacture was centralised and greater volumes of swords produced to meet increasing demand much of the unique qualities of earler work was lost.

Hi Russell I will try and give you some quick answers. 1. Depends what you are looking for. Is it Japanese? Yes. Is it by who it says it is? We can get fairly close and confident on a signed blade in good polish. The less you can see the harder it gets. 2. if you have it polished you could submit it to shinsa at the NBTHK or NTHK (from the Uk you would have to send it to Japan) and they could confirm the authenticity of the signature and issues a certificate confirming it to be worthy of preservation. 3. Everything has value. Ultmately it is worth what someone is will to pay for it. To have it polished papered and put in Shirasaya you could spend several thousand pounds in total and have a blade that is worth little more than the cost of restoration. But it could also be worth more if everything went well or a lot less if the polish uncovered a crack or other fault. As it stands I would suggest it is worth a few hundred pounds to someone wanting a project 4. Only you can decide whether to insure it or not. 5. Blades have been reunited with original families in Japan but generally this is not a good idea. The return of the blade reminds them of a period of history they would prefer to forget and are often embarrassed by a swords return (not always but often)add to that it is a very difficult thing to do. 6. I would show it to several collectors locally and get their opinion as to whether it would polish (As you will appreciate I am a little biased on the last point!!) Not sure where you are in the UK but you would be very welcome to join one of our regular London Meetings or regional events which we hold throughout the year. Alternatively drop me a pm and I can put you in touch with a member of the Token Society of GB closest to you. Hope this helps Paul

Steff, I think part of the problem is looking for a definitive black or white answer and in reality mostly they are all shades of grey. the quotation you referred to is correct, as a general rule, but throughout sword making history smiths were making works in earlier styles or customised pieces that had some variation to the norm of the time. As suggested here the shape can give you an indicator of the age, not how old it is but how young. ie. if its got a shape that first appeared in the 17th century it cant be earlier. However if it has a 13th century shape it could still be a later copy. Once you have learned what you can from the shape you then progress on to the hada and hamon and in the case of your blade the condition doesnt allow for any detailed assessment. To be honest and as Michael has suggested we appear to be getting bogged down in detail when there really isnt any to see at present. To understand this better it needs to be polished (at least in part) you can then assess the structure and condition issues. Even then however what you will have is a range of opinions not concrete fact. In the sellers opinion it was 13th century some here think it is a little later but still koto. This isn't a case of fakery or misrepresentation it is just differences of opinion about something that was made a very long time ago and currently not in the best of condition.

As a basic guide the original shape is and indicator of age, the hada(grain pattern) indicates tradition and the hamon (hardenned edge) school and possibly smith. As always it isnt quite that staightforward but it is a good starting point. You are right to learn much more about your blade you would need to have it polished so the hada and hamon become more clearly visible. As a first step it might be worth having a "window" polished on a small section of the blade before committing to a full polish. It might give you an indication of both condition and origin.

Steff, Your blade is an authentic work. From what can be seen in it's current condition it is an older piece. I dont believe it is from the 1200s as you originally thought but I do think it is likely to be koto and pre 1450 (but without being able to see more detail that is still a bit of a guess) As suggested by Jussi I think your next best step is to come along to one of the meetings in the UK and let some people look at it with you (we can also explain some of the terminology a bit as well)

Kirill you may be right but I don't agree with your comments re: Oei Bizen, thin Suguha small kissaki. If you take a look at the link below which describes in some detail an Oei period Bizen blade with ko-kissaki and thin(ish) suguha hamon). The top Oei Bizen smiths were aiming to return to the quieter sugata and of the early Kamakura period following the excesses seen in the earlier Nambokucho. http://www.militaria.co.za/articles/Yasumitsu.pdf I don't know what this is and the shape and condition are not offering too many clues. I agree it could be interesting but stress "could" I think there is a long way to go before it can be properly evaluated.

unfortunately all papers were issued from the HQ so my understanding is you cant determine where it was papered.

Stefan you must be a very good person to recieve gifts like this. I agree with Alex and dont think it has great age, but looks in good condition and well made. I think the shape may also be a pointer as although not unusual isn't all that common either so personally I would start trawling some of the shin-shinto or even later smiths. Good luck with your research

so say us all JP

I think colour in steel is the hardest single characteristic to define. I get very frustrated when kantei explanations talk about the darkness of the steel being a key feature because I find it incredibly difficult to see. Normally the only way I can do it is in comparison with somehting else, i.e. if I have a northen province blade i know to be described as dark steel and put another blade next to it I can try and see the difference. There have only been two swords where I have actually seen a colour on a blade in isolation. The first was an Awataguchi blade by Hisakuni which I saw years ago at Chrisites,it was a stunning ice like blackish blue which was beautiful beyond decription. The second was a Northern province sword by Sadatsuna which looked decidely grey and blackish. Other than that it has all been by comparison.

It is impossible to argue against the logic of buying ubu signed koto blades in excellent condition. The problem is there aren't actually too many that fit that description about and those that do are often prohibitively expensive. Until very recently I have never held an Ubu signed koto blade in my collection. The swords that I have are in good condition and polish and to my eye beautiful. Some were very expensive, had they been ubu and signed they would have been totally beyond reach. Bottom line is that first and foremost buy something you like, ultimately it is your hard earned cash you are the one that has to be satisfied. There is little or no point in buying an expensive blade because it is signed and papered if you don't enjoy looking at it. Spend some time to identify what features really hit the right buttons for you and then aim for that.