paulb

Hi Ray, As a lover of Aoe work I couldnt help but love your Aoe blade. I think there is something very special about Aoe and your blade helps confirm that view. Congratulations and enjoy it

Eric, As indicated above you need better images to attempt to make any judgement and also dimensions would help. Based on what I can see my feeling is that this is later than you are hoping. Firstly I cant see anything that says Awataguchi. The shapes wrong the hada is wrong and the hamon is wrong. (again this is based on what can be seen which is not a lot and is opinion not statement of fact) The hada appears to be mainly itame there is no evidence either within the hamon or the ji-hada of any nie or other activity. Much the same is true for the Rai School. There are no key features for this school showing in your images. I am inclined to go along with the view that it is later probably shinto but I think better images may tell us more. good luck Paul

Mark that was partly my thinking too. Although thanks to Piers' clarification I need to rethink it. To me Ji-hada or just hada referred to the pattern, i.e. mokume, masame, itame etc. Jigane I believed referred to the actual material, the skin steel. But based on Piers note above it appears to encapsulate the material in the whole structure. fascinating langauge which I know I will never master! Sometimes wish I had studied something that describes pieces in English as a first langauge. But then again maybe not!

Oh thats another revelation and I will have to change my thinking for future discussions. I have been asked to write up the presentation which I will do at some point (currently a little saturated with it and need to focus on something else) When I do I will incorporate some of the very interesting and useful additional information that you and other attendees offered. The real benefit of the meeting for me was that allowed members with knowledge in specific areas of detail to share them. I think it greaty enriched both experience and understanding. Ian recorded the meeting and it is available to members of the society should they be foolhardy enough to want to see it. I admit I sit and cringe when I hear myself. This isnt helped by my good lady informing me that I sound like a slightly drunk Chris Packham (UK naturalist, activist and tv presenter) on our system Thank you for your input Piers and it was good to have the chance to meet this way.

Hi Ken We didnt really test it to that extent. The main part of the presentation was a PowrPoint with preprepared images. Where anyone did try an show anything I wasnt too impressed but that may have more to do with the built in camera they were using from their device. With good quality images there didn't seem to be any problem. Rich, I don't think it is vastly different over here regarding numbers. I think the reason we went for a paid version was the time constraint (I talk too much for a 45 minute limit as on the free version)

Hi Ken, Yes we decided to go for the premium version which I think costs about £11 per month. The other version has a 40 minute time limit and I think a participant limit of around 20. This version has no time restriction and unlimited access. I must admit that to be managable I think 30 is pucshing towards the limit but as we become more familliar with it they may become easier. Certainly proved to be useful and I think has great potential for future activity (although not as a replacement for face to face when we can start that again)

As promised I wanted to give some feedback on the Token Society of GB's first virtual meeting. We limited the first meeting to a maximum of 30 people to enable us to find our way round the technology with a workable group. One person acted as host and was able to mute and unmute participants. Everyone was muted during the main presentation but could signal if they had a question. After the main presentation people were unmuted (is that a word?) as needed. This prevented the image dashing between participants focussing on the last one to make a noise. It seemed to go well and was generally well received. It is something I am sure we will use again and it will prove a great asset especially for those that cannot physically attend meetings. Which at the moment is all of us. What I was really pleased about was that amongst those taking part were members who had never had the opportunity to join a physical meeting before and some from different parts of the world.

At the momemt they have said they will only have this facility available during the Corvid situation. Lets hope if enough of us use it they will see the benefit of using modern communication.

The Token Society committee had a dry run last week which worked pretty well. I think I was using the oldest pc so a microphone and headset and separate webcam worked well for me (also let me fanaticise I was in star trek). I think our first feeling was it was better to illustrate topics with still pictures rather than video but we are still in the experimental stage.

The Token Society of GB is holding it's first zoom meeting for members on May 5th. I will let you know how it goes (unless it's a disaster in which case I will hide in a very dark corner!!)

Kantei answer The sword posted is a wakazashi by the Osaka Ishido smith Yasuhiro. It is signed Bitchu (no) kami Yasuhiro 備中守橘康廣 Bitchu (no) Kami Tachibana Yasuhiro Explanation: When first looking at the blade the togari in the hamon and the sunagashi might suggest Mino and an answer to Mino is understandable. However when you look in more detail it leads to a different conclusion Shape: This is a smallish Ubu wakazashi. The size and shape are typical Kanbun Shinto form. Jigane the combination of ko-itame and mokume is common to many shinto schools however the description confirms there is midare utsuri. Utsuri is not regularly seen in Shinto work. However the Ishido School specialised in reproducing the characteristics of earlier Bizen blades and utsuri regulalry appears in their blades. So the shape and hada are leading towards the Ishido School in the Kanbun period. The NBTHK confirm that there is considerable variation within the school and normally an answer to Ishido would be sufficient. However there are other features that can tie this down more closely. The presence of sunagashi and hakikake in the boshi are more common in Osaka Ishido blades. Also the presence of ko-nie in troughs of the choji is typical of the Osaka Ishido work. The hamon combining togari and choji is seen in the work of Tameyasu and one of the most famous Osaka Ishido smiths Nanki Shigekuni. However if it was Shigekuni you would expect to see a midare boshi rather than the ko-maru seen here. Something you might also expect to see is yakidashi starting as a low suguha at the hamachi and rising to the full hamon as it progresses along the blade. It isn’t present here but as Nihonto Koza says “usually but not always”. Once you get to Osaka shinto it really comes down to the mei. Based on the research I did for an earlier paper if I had to choose I would probably have opted for Tameyasu, this smiths father. The hamon is more typical of his style than the examples of Yasuhiro I have found. Fortunately the mei removes any doubt.

excellent images Kirill. Personal favourites based on these are the second, first and fith. If I had to choose one I would struggle between the second and fith

Thanks Chris It was a good image and very distinctive hada. I dont feel too bad going for Norishige. In a shoji kantei it is normal for an attribution to a student or master of the smith concerned to be counted as correct. Kirill I don't think you are being argumentative and thank you for the compliment regarding my other images. These are somewhat older and I agree not as clear. However that does lead to another point. The original post put up some time ago was not an attempt at kantei it was an exercise to try and identify different types of hada. Subsequently you and Chris posted images of short sections of swords and invited people to attribute them to a smith/school. This has been good fun and a useful learning exercise but it isn't kantei. You cannot kantei a blade based on an image of 5 or 6 cm of blade. The basic requirements for a kantei are (or were): An image of the whole blade or at least top and bottom sections as far as the ha-machi. Dimensions including thickness. Ideally the blade should be ubu and signed Finally it should be representative of the school or tradition. Odd ball pieces are almost impossible to kantei and as a teaching tool all they tell you is that there are exceptions they don't reinforce any of the general facts about smith school or tradition. In a shoji kantei such as those published in the NBTHK magazine you are presented with an oshigata of the top and lower parts of the blade and a description which includes detail of hada hamon and nakago as these are not visible within the oshigata. Regarding the piece above you are right the images are not as good as some I have been able to produce recently. They were taken some time ago and I was lazy and used them for this rather than taking more. Sorry. However that is also why I supplied a full description in line with normal kantei procedure. (I should have tried to include an image of the boshi but in its absence did describe it). I thought It offered as much detail as one would normally get in a shoji kantei. All of the features described are identified as being characteristic of this period, school and smith. I have attached an image of the boshi (my apologies it doesn't show the detail too clearly but it does show the overall shape) and some more showing hamon

I would also go for Norishige

Hi Jp I assume you are responding to the one I posted. If so: First look at the shape- it will give you an indication of period Then read the description there are a number of pointers in there that would lead you somewhere else. I think the togari and sunagashi are making you jump in one direction and you have considered what else it is telling you.

Not sure if it is easy but in line with principals of kantei it exhibits typical features of period, school and smith. Description: A shinogi-zukuri wakazashi Configuration: Sugata: Shinogi-zukuri, iori-mune. Ubu with nagamei Nagasa: 39.3cm. Sori: 0.6cm. Motohaba: 2.9 cm. Sakihaba: 2cm. Kasane: 0.6cm Hada: fine Itame with Nagare and O-hada with ji-nie and chikei. There is a patchy midare utsuri and masame in the shinogi-ji. There are areas of plain bright steel within the jihada. Hamon: Midare with billowing but compact choji and isolated areas of togari. The hamon is nioi-guchi interspersed with ko-nie. There valleys of the choji broaden in to small pockets of ko-nie. There is a great deal of activity within the hamon in the form of sunagashi and nie Nakago: Ubu with 2 mekugi-ana. Kengo nakagojiri and sujikai yasurimei (with slight keisho) Mei: There is a Naga-mei . Boshi. Hakikake beard with profuse Nie. Ko maru with narrow return

Yes on occassion Chris, it's like looking back at pictures of old friends. It is also interesting to read what I said about them and compare it to how I would do it today. If nothing else it proves we never stop learning. good luck with your project.

because they either dont know any different or just dont care. They seem to do less and less and charge higher and higher commissions.

Be careful Chris I completed my collection catalogue in 2010 believing I had reached the end of my collecting career. This was radically changed in 2011 and then again in 2012. It is now due for further modification. I am guessing yours are all in E-form rather than on paper? regettably mine were all printed and bound and are now hopelessly out of date

I dont think I would have got there in a million years. I also think it proves two things 1. Every school were capable of producing good work 2. For a school like Bungo to produce work copying so many different traditions they had to be technically very good. Thank you Kirill it is an interesting piece.

Dwain Forgive me if I am stating something you already know but can I suggest you dont try and tie yourself down with trying to define a hamon. Most, especially the more complex ones combine many different elements. In addtion to that some terms are open to interpretation one mans gunome is anothers choji etc. Fundementally there are two types Sugu- straight Midare- not straight everythng else becomes an addition to basic. Identify the different elements that appear without necessarily trying to label the hamon as a single entity. (works for me anyway)

Dear All, Thank you all for the positive support over this. When I saw the link and read the post yesterday morning I confess I was initially very angry but also greatly saddened. I have devoted more than 38 years of my life (not 35 as stated in the article) and it felt as though it had been totally worthless. I appreciate this may be an over reaction but I think there is still the 5 year old in all of us that can be hurt by such things. I admit to being greatly moved and a little embarrassed by the kind words from Ian and Michael. When I took over as Chairman I inherited an organisation with a very strong foundation laid down over the years by such prominent people as Victor Harris, Graham Curtis, Fred Stride and Clive Sinclaire. If it has progressed and developed during my tenure it is the result of the dedication and commitment of the team I have around me, all of whom devote a great amount of time and effort to the subject we all enjoy. I sincerely hope that this unpleasant episode can be drawn to an end. There is nothing but harm that can be gained from these continuous vitriolic attacks on various people within our small community. Ultimately if one continues with negativity it reflects on the perpetrator rather than the subject and nothing at all can be gained from it.

Dear Jussi, I am sorry I cant help you with your questions. I was not involved in the original meeting or subsequent facebook discussions. Also please forgive me if I say I don't think there is anything to be gained by discussing the initial case that started this. To do so just continues the debate and adds credibility to it which I don't see is of any value. I am always saddened when as you say such a small community degenerates in to such unpleasant situations. I am afraid it is human nature, perhaps concentrated by the difficulties we are all facing currently.

Hi Mike, Normally if a blade is retemepered there are a number of telltale signs. The hada tend to look "glassy" there is mizukage (not sure of spelling) which shows itself as a cloudy line running at an acute angle from the hamachi towards the shinogi and the sori tends to be exaggerated. I don't see any of these on the images you linked to. The hamon does look a little strange but I don't think that is a result of Saiha.

JP Absolutely I have taken a screen shot as evidence!