Brian

And adding active rust back to a nakago has very little to do with properly restoring age and patina back to a nakago. Brian

All.. I am pretty sure this was just written wrongly, and he meant "..in a rough state of repair, covered in surface rust and it had had the nakago sand blasted...." I think he got it like that...didn't do it himself. Brian

Ok..how about this: 1)Andreas says rightfully that the saya was longer than the blade. 2)Charles says that the saya was too short, and the blade sticks out the front. 3)Mike says that the kojiri was not there, leaving the bottom open, but with space and clearance for the blade tip. I believe the kissaki was bent, reshaped and was in good condition on shipping it. Andreas, I do believe your method of wrapping the blade in cling film, and then putting it in the saya (even with tape and bubble wrap) was not enough, and in being dropped end on, the blade shifted down into the saya, with the end of the blade comming right through the bottom of the saya, and either hitting something hard (floor or wood on the saya?) and bending the tip. This would explain why Charles, on opening the package, would see the blade sticking out of the end of the saya, and looking like the saya was too short. This does explain both sides. Whether you 2 can agree that this happened is up to you. I would like to see you both agree on someor other probability, and come to an agreement like Mike did with Andreas. Try and see the situation from the POV of the other guy, and try and understand their feelings, and maybe this can become civil again. I am only letting this discussion carry on to serve as a warning to both buyer and sellers, and as an education into packing Nihonto. If you keep it fairly civil, I will let the discussion go on, otherwise I will be forced to lock it. Regards, Brian

I looked at it under close magnification. Not umegane or a fukure. Doesn't appear to be or indicate a flaw in any way. Just a mark engraved there very carefully. Thanks for all the hints so far. Personally I think it is some kind of tiny signature mark. Maybe one of the prisoners who helped forge it for Emura, maybe from the polisher who polished it. Maybe by the original owner (the mon possibility is there) I expect it was done in Japan, as a Westerner would have used initials, and not a symbol. Only things I do know for sure is that it was not accidental, and it is purposely done. Maybe a previous owner used it (long ago down the line) to indicate what blades were once his. Too many theories, and I am afraid I don't think we will ever know the truth Brian

I think those are properly forged, folded and made out of modern steels, and are probably very nice swords that are some of the top of the line non-Japanese type swords. But they are not Nihonto, and never will be. They fall under the category of modern made custom swords, and not intended as fakes. Not much to discuss about them on the forum though. High class Chinese forged swords made in the Japanese style. Regards, Brian

No to both. It is quite clearly very precisely engraved with a very sharp instrument, does not appear to be stamped at all. I measured it, and the diameter is 1.5mm across. Precision work there, definitely not accidental. Brian

Hi Erol, Yes, that is Ohmura-san's site, I have asked Simon if he can perhaps contact him and ask about it. It's not the Kokura stamp, this one is like a larger circle with 4 circles inside it. Baffles me Brian

I would like clarity on the saya issue. Charles says it had the end cut off, and the kissaki was exposed. Andreas says it is a standard saya 8cm longer than the blade. Hmm. Please clarify this among yourselves, and find out of something was tampered with? If the blade was not fitted with the tsuka, and just had clingfilm on it and pressed into the saya, there is a good chance it shifted down and that is how the damage occurred. This forum will not be used as a trial to see who was wrong and who was right. It's a bad situation. Work it out folks. Brian

I will certainly do that I don't want this one to just die without some theories. If anyone has any ideas of Gunto/Gendaito experts who might have some idea that aren't online perhaps, please let me know. Unfortunately Dr Stein is the Emura guy, but is unreachable for health reasons. Thanks, Brian

Charles and Andreas, I can sympathise with both sides of the story. Andres, I am sure you can understand how Charles would be disappointed, and I hope you will be patient with him as emotions run high. The fact is that it should be packed in such a way that it cannot possibly be damaged. It is curious to hear differing stories about how the saya was too short or not. Guys..I think you both need to look into this and see if there was some tampering along the way. Both of you need to work together to sort this out, and not just lat the blame lie on the other side. Seems to me there is definitely some parcel tampering. A good buyer and seller will listen to the other side of the story, and see if they can reach some middle ground. Please see if you can work it out amongst you 2, and come to a mutually acceptable compromise. Good luck...but please no bickering on the forum. Brian

*Should be fixed now* Brian

More pics merged from other post:

Yeah..I missed it many times. Actually..it was the g.f. who saw it I wouldn't want it polished off..it is so subtle, and I can't bring myself to believe it was added later. I can only think it was put on there during or just after manufacture. Perhaps it is something not often seen due to the fact that later polishing would remove it. Took me 20 photos to even capture it :D This is really a deep and interesting hobby, and one that never fails to surprise. Yes, this one definitely needs to go for a full and professional polish and shira saya oneday. So much nie Brian Btw - It is on the ura side.

Hi all, I was lookig closely at my new Emura blade that recently got through Stephen. Lovely blade, showing everything you want to see in a nice Gendaito. Something caught my eye on perhaps the 20th time I looked at it. There is a tiny stamping on the blade I missed it the first few times, as it is only about 2-3mm across, and seems lightly but well engraved to me. It is in the form of a tiny circle with 4 tiny circles in the middle of that, forming a cloverleaf shape. It looks like it was either engraved there with a tiny instrument, or maybe stamped (looks more engraved) It is just below the mune, and above the hamon, and roughly in the middle of the blade length. This blade doesn't look like it has taken much polishing if any since the war, and I am very intrigued by this. Would have taken a very careful hand, and I can't think of a reason it would have been done long after manufacture. Has anyone ever come across this kind of marking on a blade? It is much less conspicuous that the photos make it out to be, and is really small. Could it be some kind of semi-secret forging signature, polishers mark or arsenal mark? Simon, perhaps you could ask Ohmura-san if he has ever seen this before on a blade? Hmm..curious. Brian

From: http://japanesesword.net/eng/iaito/su_toppei.html The name of Toppei Koshirae is derived from the unique Saya end shape, reinforced with the big metal ornament, that resembles the Kabuto armor's Toppai. In order for the late Tokugawa Shogunate to adapt the western style of military training, the overall shape of Japanese sword has been slightly modified and it has become the Toppei Koshirae. Like Tensho Koshirae, the Toppei Koshirae is considered to be the most practical and simple sword in Japanese sword history. A google image search does pull up quite a few examples. Try this search: http://www.nihonart.es/iaido/iaido108.htm Also, some good pics here: http://www.nihonart.es/iaido/iaido108.htm http://www.budoya.es/katana/toppei.html (This one has close ups of the parts you enquired about) There is also a write-up here: http://www.arscives.com/historysteel/ja ... rticle.htm that says The end of the Edo period 江戸時代 is called Bakumatsu 幕末 (1853 ~ 1868), and brought many changes to the Samurai 侍 class. Some men started wearing newly imported western clothes. Since at this time both the Imperial Army and the Shôgun’s Army adopted Western style military uniform, the soldiers of both Armies started wearing so called Toppei-Koshirae 突兵拵 swords, also called Zubon ズボン (trousers)-Koshirae 拵, which had a softly rounded Kojiri 鐺 but no Tsukamaki 柄巻. Bit confusing since most of the pictured swords have tsukamaki. Not sure which is the correct version to go for here? Regards, Brian

I did say it can probably be repaired This is a nasty one, although I have seen worse. I do think it can be repaired without losing the tip, but of course only an expert will be able to tell you for sure. I recommend taking a few shots from all angles, and sending them to Bob to at least ask what he thinks. He might be too busy to take on a new job right now, but I am sure he will be able to give you an educated opinion. From what I can see (very limited) it isn't fatal though, even if it broke off. I can only imaging what they did to it to make it bend like that. That parcel must have been an impromptu rugby ball or something. Brian

A bent tip is not a fatal flaw. If it snaps off, and the hamon then runs off the boshi, then it is fatal. If the tip breaks off, and there is still boshi there, then it is not fatal. If the bend causes a crack that runs through the hamon (hagire) then it is fatal. If it is just bent or curled, then it is not fatal, and can probably be repaired. I suggest you 2 work out any shipping or transactional queries via pm, and post pics for us to advise on the solution. You say it is a slightly bend. Perhaps it is no-where near as bad as we are imagining. Post a pic. Perhaps there is no new damage at all, and it is only a very slight wiggle that came from the previous repair that you are seeing. As mentioned by Andreas, let's wait for the pics before jumping to confusions Brian

The big question is if the tip can be straightened without breaking it off. I am sometimes confused by bent or curled tips, as the boshi should be hard, and I would have thought that it would snap off instead of curling. I was present when an acquaintance dropped a sword point first onto a carpet (gives me nightmares) and curled the last 4mm into a tight curl without snapping off. I would be very cautious about straightening it again, and consult with a polisher who can tell you if it can be straightened and how. If I remember, you are in Hawaii, so I would take it straight to Bob Benson, and let him advise. Brian

Got this reply in a pm from Ford Hallam. Thanks Ford, great info! Brian

Paul Martin recently donated a fantastic article to the Nihonto Message Board that he wrote on the Yoshihara tradition of Japanese swordmaking. This is an extensive summary of this important line, and features information on such esteemed modern swordsmiths such as Yoshihara Yoshindo, Ono Yoshimitsu, Yoshihara Kuniie and many others. It is in the form of a 34 Meg downloadable .pdf file, and is linked from the NMB Downloads section at the top of the page. Please feel free to download it or view it in your own time. There is no rush to download it, it will be up permanently. A huge thanks goes out to Paul for this tremendous effort and gracious donation. If any of you are on other forums, please rather refer people to the archives page where they can download it, instead of posting the direct link to it. Enjoy, Brian

Before anyone has a chance to say it themselves... Is the forum going to the birds? Back to swords now folks Brian

Yes, on yours he signed tachi-mei, whereas on the example it was katana-mei. Not unusual, and I don't think it has any great significance. Swords made for the military in WW2 were mostly carried in the position of old tachi, hence whey they are often signed this way. I have seen Emura also signed sometimes tachi mei and other times katana mei. Interesting to see the conflicting ratings though..from lower grade to medium/high grade showato. Not sure which to go with here, so as we should always be doing anyways, let the blade quality speak for itself. Brian

If this is Yoshida Kaneuji (worked in Seki) then you can find him here: http://home.earthlink.net/~ttstein/seki.htm and here: http://home.earthlink.net/~ttstein/tosho.htm He seems to be listed as ge-saku. Since chu-ge saku means below average, and chu means middle/average, then would ge-saku mean inferior blades? Brian

Fish? Looked like some kind of sack to me. Where are the legends experts? Brian

Thanks Erol, Watched it today and really enjoyed it. So you are the translator-type...how are your voice-over skills? :D Brian