Brian

Max, Not sure what to make of this one. He does say it has Tokubetsu Juyo papers. What is that origami pictured there? It also does look like the same sword pictured by Koichi, and he says it is listed somewhere else. Same sword or similar one? We all know that you are not going to get a TJ sword for $20K, but the seller does have what he sells usually. The problems usually lie elsewhere. I have seen all those swords claiming they are "Juyo candidates" or will "easily go Juyo" but this is the first time I have seen him actually say it has T.J. papers? This is a curious one for sure. Brian

Peter, Can't make out what is happening with the mune there, but the shinae ware, condition and fact that the mekugi ana looks punched would rule out Showa for me, and since there is indications that the nakago was well rusted and corroded before the cleaning, would say it is at least a shinto, maybe late Koto. I don't see much to indicate Showa there, and the fact that the nakago seems shortened maybe (not that well) also gives me that impression. The yasurime though are still a bit too clear for too much age, so perhaps we are looking at a Shinto indeed. Difficult one from pics, and the best way to come to a conclusion would be to try and get it to a sword meeting near you, where they can look at it in hand. I don't think the shape of the mune is too much indicator here, as it could have easily been changed with an incorrect polish by an amateur. Regards, Brian

Cosmoline is nasty stuff. The gun guys know it well, as many surplus rifles come caked all over them. There are many ways to remove it, but you will have to take care with a sword, and properly apply liberal doses of oil afterwards to prevent any corrosion. I use petrol or diesel to remove it. Other good methods are kerosene and Ronsol lighter fluid. All of these should be done outside in a well ventilated area. be careful not to get there near any fittings that have any plating, as I don't know what they will do to soft metals. WD-40 and other solvents work ok, but will take more time. Basically you need a degreaser. Remove the bulk with very hot water, and the rest with a solvent. If you search google for "remove cosmoline" you will come across many pages on this. The best is to use common sense and try a method in a very small area to see the results. As I said..be careful of fittings and any non-iron parts! Oil the blade properly afterwards and I suggest keeping them well oiled for a while afterwards to make sure no traces of any solvents remain to cause corrosion or rust. Brian

Hmm..I've found that the kashira is usually just small enough to almost fit into the fuchi, or close to it. If they are the same size, usually they are not a pair? This just from the few that I have here. I will have to measure a few of my swords to get a closer assumption, but depending on the style, I would not rule the pairing out. What are the others' obsevations on this? Brian

Jock, I would like to move this to the auction and sales section, but that will mess up your direct link on eBay to this post. Please don't use this as an eBay photo hosting site? :? Brian

You realise now that after mentioning that, it is all I can see now when I look at them? :D Brian

And adding active rust back to a nakago has very little to do with properly restoring age and patina back to a nakago. Brian

All.. I am pretty sure this was just written wrongly, and he meant "..in a rough state of repair, covered in surface rust and it had had the nakago sand blasted...." I think he got it like that...didn't do it himself. Brian

Ok..how about this: 1)Andreas says rightfully that the saya was longer than the blade. 2)Charles says that the saya was too short, and the blade sticks out the front. 3)Mike says that the kojiri was not there, leaving the bottom open, but with space and clearance for the blade tip. I believe the kissaki was bent, reshaped and was in good condition on shipping it. Andreas, I do believe your method of wrapping the blade in cling film, and then putting it in the saya (even with tape and bubble wrap) was not enough, and in being dropped end on, the blade shifted down into the saya, with the end of the blade comming right through the bottom of the saya, and either hitting something hard (floor or wood on the saya?) and bending the tip. This would explain why Charles, on opening the package, would see the blade sticking out of the end of the saya, and looking like the saya was too short. This does explain both sides. Whether you 2 can agree that this happened is up to you. I would like to see you both agree on someor other probability, and come to an agreement like Mike did with Andreas. Try and see the situation from the POV of the other guy, and try and understand their feelings, and maybe this can become civil again. I am only letting this discussion carry on to serve as a warning to both buyer and sellers, and as an education into packing Nihonto. If you keep it fairly civil, I will let the discussion go on, otherwise I will be forced to lock it. Regards, Brian

I looked at it under close magnification. Not umegane or a fukure. Doesn't appear to be or indicate a flaw in any way. Just a mark engraved there very carefully. Thanks for all the hints so far. Personally I think it is some kind of tiny signature mark. Maybe one of the prisoners who helped forge it for Emura, maybe from the polisher who polished it. Maybe by the original owner (the mon possibility is there) I expect it was done in Japan, as a Westerner would have used initials, and not a symbol. Only things I do know for sure is that it was not accidental, and it is purposely done. Maybe a previous owner used it (long ago down the line) to indicate what blades were once his. Too many theories, and I am afraid I don't think we will ever know the truth Brian

I think those are properly forged, folded and made out of modern steels, and are probably very nice swords that are some of the top of the line non-Japanese type swords. But they are not Nihonto, and never will be. They fall under the category of modern made custom swords, and not intended as fakes. Not much to discuss about them on the forum though. High class Chinese forged swords made in the Japanese style. Regards, Brian

No to both. It is quite clearly very precisely engraved with a very sharp instrument, does not appear to be stamped at all. I measured it, and the diameter is 1.5mm across. Precision work there, definitely not accidental. Brian

Hi Erol, Yes, that is Ohmura-san's site, I have asked Simon if he can perhaps contact him and ask about it. It's not the Kokura stamp, this one is like a larger circle with 4 circles inside it. Baffles me Brian

I would like clarity on the saya issue. Charles says it had the end cut off, and the kissaki was exposed. Andreas says it is a standard saya 8cm longer than the blade. Hmm. Please clarify this among yourselves, and find out of something was tampered with? If the blade was not fitted with the tsuka, and just had clingfilm on it and pressed into the saya, there is a good chance it shifted down and that is how the damage occurred. This forum will not be used as a trial to see who was wrong and who was right. It's a bad situation. Work it out folks. Brian

I will certainly do that I don't want this one to just die without some theories. If anyone has any ideas of Gunto/Gendaito experts who might have some idea that aren't online perhaps, please let me know. Unfortunately Dr Stein is the Emura guy, but is unreachable for health reasons. Thanks, Brian

Charles and Andreas, I can sympathise with both sides of the story. Andres, I am sure you can understand how Charles would be disappointed, and I hope you will be patient with him as emotions run high. The fact is that it should be packed in such a way that it cannot possibly be damaged. It is curious to hear differing stories about how the saya was too short or not. Guys..I think you both need to look into this and see if there was some tampering along the way. Both of you need to work together to sort this out, and not just lat the blame lie on the other side. Seems to me there is definitely some parcel tampering. A good buyer and seller will listen to the other side of the story, and see if they can reach some middle ground. Please see if you can work it out amongst you 2, and come to a mutually acceptable compromise. Good luck...but please no bickering on the forum. Brian

*Should be fixed now* Brian

More pics merged from other post:

Yeah..I missed it many times. Actually..it was the g.f. who saw it I wouldn't want it polished off..it is so subtle, and I can't bring myself to believe it was added later. I can only think it was put on there during or just after manufacture. Perhaps it is something not often seen due to the fact that later polishing would remove it. Took me 20 photos to even capture it :D This is really a deep and interesting hobby, and one that never fails to surprise. Yes, this one definitely needs to go for a full and professional polish and shira saya oneday. So much nie Brian Btw - It is on the ura side.

Hi all, I was lookig closely at my new Emura blade that recently got through Stephen. Lovely blade, showing everything you want to see in a nice Gendaito. Something caught my eye on perhaps the 20th time I looked at it. There is a tiny stamping on the blade I missed it the first few times, as it is only about 2-3mm across, and seems lightly but well engraved to me. It is in the form of a tiny circle with 4 tiny circles in the middle of that, forming a cloverleaf shape. It looks like it was either engraved there with a tiny instrument, or maybe stamped (looks more engraved) It is just below the mune, and above the hamon, and roughly in the middle of the blade length. This blade doesn't look like it has taken much polishing if any since the war, and I am very intrigued by this. Would have taken a very careful hand, and I can't think of a reason it would have been done long after manufacture. Has anyone ever come across this kind of marking on a blade? It is much less conspicuous that the photos make it out to be, and is really small. Could it be some kind of semi-secret forging signature, polishers mark or arsenal mark? Simon, perhaps you could ask Ohmura-san if he has ever seen this before on a blade? Hmm..curious. Brian

From: http://japanesesword.net/eng/iaito/su_toppei.html The name of Toppei Koshirae is derived from the unique Saya end shape, reinforced with the big metal ornament, that resembles the Kabuto armor's Toppai. In order for the late Tokugawa Shogunate to adapt the western style of military training, the overall shape of Japanese sword has been slightly modified and it has become the Toppei Koshirae. Like Tensho Koshirae, the Toppei Koshirae is considered to be the most practical and simple sword in Japanese sword history. A google image search does pull up quite a few examples. Try this search: http://www.nihonart.es/iaido/iaido108.htm Also, some good pics here: http://www.nihonart.es/iaido/iaido108.htm http://www.budoya.es/katana/toppei.html (This one has close ups of the parts you enquired about) There is also a write-up here: http://www.arscives.com/historysteel/ja ... rticle.htm that says The end of the Edo period 江戸時代 is called Bakumatsu 幕末 (1853 ~ 1868), and brought many changes to the Samurai 侍 class. Some men started wearing newly imported western clothes. Since at this time both the Imperial Army and the Shôgun’s Army adopted Western style military uniform, the soldiers of both Armies started wearing so called Toppei-Koshirae 突兵拵 swords, also called Zubon ズボン (trousers)-Koshirae 拵, which had a softly rounded Kojiri 鐺 but no Tsukamaki 柄巻. Bit confusing since most of the pictured swords have tsukamaki. Not sure which is the correct version to go for here? Regards, Brian

I did say it can probably be repaired This is a nasty one, although I have seen worse. I do think it can be repaired without losing the tip, but of course only an expert will be able to tell you for sure. I recommend taking a few shots from all angles, and sending them to Bob to at least ask what he thinks. He might be too busy to take on a new job right now, but I am sure he will be able to give you an educated opinion. From what I can see (very limited) it isn't fatal though, even if it broke off. I can only imaging what they did to it to make it bend like that. That parcel must have been an impromptu rugby ball or something. Brian

A bent tip is not a fatal flaw. If it snaps off, and the hamon then runs off the boshi, then it is fatal. If the tip breaks off, and there is still boshi there, then it is not fatal. If the bend causes a crack that runs through the hamon (hagire) then it is fatal. If it is just bent or curled, then it is not fatal, and can probably be repaired. I suggest you 2 work out any shipping or transactional queries via pm, and post pics for us to advise on the solution. You say it is a slightly bend. Perhaps it is no-where near as bad as we are imagining. Post a pic. Perhaps there is no new damage at all, and it is only a very slight wiggle that came from the previous repair that you are seeing. As mentioned by Andreas, let's wait for the pics before jumping to confusions Brian

The big question is if the tip can be straightened without breaking it off. I am sometimes confused by bent or curled tips, as the boshi should be hard, and I would have thought that it would snap off instead of curling. I was present when an acquaintance dropped a sword point first onto a carpet (gives me nightmares) and curled the last 4mm into a tight curl without snapping off. I would be very cautious about straightening it again, and consult with a polisher who can tell you if it can be straightened and how. If I remember, you are in Hawaii, so I would take it straight to Bob Benson, and let him advise. Brian

Got this reply in a pm from Ford Hallam. Thanks Ford, great info! Brian