Brian

http://www007.upp.so-net.ne.jp/m-kenji/ ... corner.htm November 1st, 2nd and 3rd in Tokyo. Regards, Brian

Everyone has the choice to either be helpful and try and correct incorrect wrong info and assist....or just criticize the whole process. Some unfortunately choose the latter. There is nothing constructive in keeping info to yourself instead of replying and giving your opinion. Making people hesitate to post their guesses and reasoning is counter productive and not what we are encouraging. Anyways, good luck and all the best to you. Brian

I have put this topic back up as I now have sufficient info and documentation that shows that Tom and MC Alken are indeed connected. I do have info that Mrs? Alken is a separate entity, however Tom...you are using her email address and selling items through her and other proof is available. That should be known to anyone dealing with the 2 of them. Note: I am not commenting on any allegations of bad dealings, as I feel that is for the buyer and seller to work out. There have also been successful dealings with MC Alken, but in the interests of openness, I think it is valid to know that the 2 are working together. Tom, I am not posting the proof here unless you decide you wish to contest this, and then we can put it out there and let people decide for themselves. I hate to do this, but the forum has always played "open cards" when it comes to online dealings. Any replies not valid or relevant to this topic will be deleted, and please keep this subject to the specific issue of id's and not the deals already done which is a subjective matter. I also don't want people registering here with more than one name, or this will be made public. Brian

Ah. When you first posted you bought "a bare blade Waki" I assumed it was just that, with no saya. Grey is of course 100% correct. In a saya, a sword has to have some form of tsuka to prevent damage to the kissaki. Brian

Yep, looks like an army parade saber to me. With the mon, I expect it to be valued around $250-350 or so at a guess. The 1944 pattern Gunto needs to have the wooden peg in the handle removed and the handle slipped off. However you need to know what you are doing, as it may be tight, may even have 2 pegs, and you don't want to damage the leather cover. Check this page for some info and links: http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/faq.htm Value on it is very difficult I expect, especially in that condition. A couple of hundred dollars? Maybe $300 to someone who likes taking a risk Clean off as much rust as you can (without abrasives) and you will know how badly it is pitted. If not too bad, you can add some $'s to the value. DON'T clean the tang/nakago at all of any rust. It is the one area that is left alone. If I were you, I wouldn't bother purchasing them unless you got them cheap. Maybe $400 for both. And then they would just be militaria memorabilia and not really significant as Japanese collectibles. Not really our focus here, unless that Gunto does turn out to be hand forged (unlikely) Brian

James, Is yours signed Bizen or Bishu? The title says Bizen, but the kanji you posted is Bishu? Brian

Recent comments have made me re-look at this debate, and i thought I should post a bit more since I missed a few things myself that should be addressed. Jean wrote: I agree completely, and we have to let people decide for themselves how they want to learn and what they want to participate in. The usual procedure for doing kantei is a good one, and would be helpful as I stated above, but is by no means compulsory, and people should participate in any way they prefer. If you have a gut feeling, and just want to have a go at a smith, then that is fair enough. I really don't believe that novices will be confused by any of this. Most ppl here are fairly bright and I think we can give them the benefit of the doubt to see what the exercise involves and not base their entire Nihonto learning experience on what happens in these informal "kantei" exercises. It is not for us to tell people how they should learn. We are here to assist them, and have some fun at the same time. There are few rules on this forum for that very reason. Find your own path, ask for advice, and learn from some very knowledgeable collectors. Criticizing constantly does nothing to assist people with this however. Lastly, I find that Reinhard's comments: are quite condescending and insulting if they are insinuating that anyone participating is an "insider" in any Aoi exercise. That is a ridiculous statement, and I would appreciate some clarity. It is not a competition, there are no prizes, and I highly doubt anyone feels the need to boost their name. People who have been studying Nihonto for as many years as some here have, do get to a point where gut feel is a huge part of identification. If they wish to share their answers, I am very glad to have them. I won't allow vague hints or criticism to spoil what i am sure many other enjoy. Just a warning from now on... Brian

Rodney, The first one is one of the military mass produced swords. Don't have time to look it up now, but you should find it in the links pages or online. I'll take a look tonight when i get home. Value only to a militaria collector, as the blade is machine made. The second is in 1944 pattern mounts, and has the leather tsuka cover on it. These usually have mass produced blades, but you do find the occasional handmade blade in those mounts. Without seeing any signature under the handle however, there is no way of telling what the blade is like under all that rust. Is that all corrosion and not any grease at all? If so, it is in a really bad state, and you need to hit that blade fast with lots of oil and cloth, and keep doing it until as much rust as possible is gone. Either you will have a slightly stained and lighty pitted blade under the rust, or a hugely pitted blade that is a total write-off. Pity it was allowed to get to that point. Chances are both are mass produced blades that will only be of interest to militaria collectors, but i would have that tang of the 1944 pattern checked out anyways, and post a pic once you have removed as much rust as you can (NOTE - oil and maybe very fine steelwool ONLY. NO sandpaper, grinder, wire brush etc) Brian

Thanks for sharing that Nigel. Looks like a very well done site. I will have to play a bit, and hopefully they do work on an English version. Will keep a watch on it. Brian

Personally I don't have any doubts it is genuine and Japanese. The nakago has been altered based on its lines, and it is probably o-suriage, and the new ana was badly positioned. No point forging a fake like this, and even with the acid treatment, you can see there is a wakizashi under there. However not worth debating much, as it is past its prime anyways. I do recommend passing it on and upgrading. Just getting the lines right would be a major expense, and not worth spending money to get a flawed blade out of it. Brian

Andrew, I hate to point out the flaws only, but I guess honesty is the way to go. A good deal at that price, someone will pay more just for polishing practice, but I go completely with the other guys here. Also wanted to point out the position of the mekugi ana says the nakago has been reshaped a bit, and look at that shinogi line Makes me seasick following it :lol: Ah well...for the money you can happily work on it a bit yourself I think. As to age, no idea, but i would think at least a Shinto? Brian

Same group? viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3496 viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2451 Brian

The seller just picks up swords from all over and sells them (maybe consignment too?) i don't think he has great knowledge about them. If he got the swords with those papers, he might know as much about them as we do. Btw..no proof that the papers were issued at those dates. I could photoshop you papers right now that would be dated 20 years apart Not saying yet that they are bogus, but dating means nothing if someone is churning out papers. Could have been done 5 minutes apart. Brian

Dan, I don't want to discourage you, but remember that there is a good reason Honoki wood is used by the Japanese, and has been for centuries. You can't just use any wood. Differences in moisture and acid content will affect the nakago, and cause unnatural aging to the tang. Also, remember that sandpaper is never used inside the tsuka or saya, as tiny grains can be left that will scratch the blade or nakago. I do suggest picking up a copy of the Craft of the Japanese Sword which is excellent and cheap book. It will explain a lot. I don't suggest attempting a saya yet, as that is an art in itself and has the potential to damage a blade. As I said, don't mean to put your attempt down, but don't want you to damage your blade either. Brian

Wonderful work Moriyama san! Brian

Agree completely Reinhard. This would be a great way to approach these, and teach better. I do suggest we try this on the next ones, working systematically through the features and arriving at a conclusion. If we explain what we see, and what conclusion it comes to, we will be teaching novices (like myself) how to approach these and how to come to the final answer. So we discuss the sugata, and see if we agree, then hada, hamon, hataraki etc. It is a good way to approach these. Brian

Paul, Might it be this smith? http://www.users.on.net/~coxm/oshigata% ... 20k17.html They have this to say about him: Also some info found from http://www.nihontocraft.com/Ura_Nihon_no_Toko.html saying: Brian

Seems like discussions about kantei can be just as educational as kantei itself Brian

I am not going to get into the "fun" debate, as I am sure everyone has their own opinions on how they enjoy things that take up much of their free time. It is up to each individual as to how they manage their hobbies and/or preoccupations, but I feel sorry for anyone who is so deeply immersed that they can't enjoy their field of interest and still have fun. I do know that this field had better do something fast about encouraging newcommers to learn to appreciate Nihonto and how to identify, conserve and appreciate them. It is pretty obvious that even in Japan, less and less newcommers have an interest, and in 200 years time, there is a danger of Nihonto just becomming another curiosity like stamp collecting and sports. An "all-or-nothing" attitude is pushing more and more people away from true appreciation, and it is no wonder that people are using swords for bush cutting and putting them to grinders etc. At least we owe it to beginners to educate them to a point that they will look after their swords for the next generation who might restore or research them further. I understand all the limitations of exercises like Aoi is running. However on a properly calibrated monitor, things like hamon, hada and boshi can be easily seen. So can yasurime and sugata. So what if there is not as much as a true kantei? Not everyone has access to these, whether they be online or in person. It's not all about comming down to a particular smith. If a beginner is only able to learn to identify a hada or a hamon pattern, or a certain hataraki or boshi...then they are one step closer. They have learned something. Yes, there are some misleading comments or confusing statements. Just like you would get in a real kantei where you are unsure or a novice. At least here people who might not have access to good swords can see the thought processes involved and realise how technical and advanced this field is. This will lead to an appreciation of the art and a willingness to learn more in many cases. No-one is forced to participate though. However ideally we wouldn't be slamming the whole process, but rather educating by saying "this actually doesn't look like that..it looks like xxx" or pointing out where the discrepancies lie. Yep, everyone has their own opinions. Make up your own mind what is constructive and what is counter productive to the field as a whole and go with it. Brian

I have recently acquired a suriage sword that is signed to the Mizuka school and so have done some reading up on it to see if mine is gimei or not. This sword here does bear some close resemblance to the Mizuta school from what I have read and seen, so I agree. I would go with Shinto on it, although the school is just a guess for now. Looks worth taking care of and possibly getting it put into shirasaya or having the mounts fixed. Brian

Ok, as per the rules here, if someone has allegations to make, the other person gets a fair chance to state his side. However I don't see this going anywhere good, so if you 2 want to give your sides reasonably and without profanity and strong emotions, I will allow both sides their say. However the second this goes ugly I will lock this thread and you 2 can work it out yourselves in private. Brian

Reinhard, I beg to differ. We all know that some shun any form of online kantei, and that is their perogative. However at last count, there were about 50 countries visiting here, and how many of those hold formal kantei sessions? Even going overseas once a year will not make you much better unless you have the time and money that most don't have. Also, I think it has been clearly explained that online kantei is just a fun game, and not a replacement for formal and proper hands-on study. But saying that no-one benefits is simply not true. A lot of people won't post an answer, but they do read the replies and then go hit the books and study up on the smiths mentioned. That info sticks, and there is indeed a lot of knowledge learned. It's getting a bit tiring slamming every online "kantei" session, and would be far more valid if there weren't atari calls on every exercise. Yes, it's not an ideal situation at all, but it is fun sometimes, and those that think there isn't enough info, or the given info is misleading, could do worse than at least identify what they do see or don't see. Frankly, sometimes pics show even more than the eyes see in person. How about we take it for what it is, (a bit of fun) and if there is a better way, then let's do it? Brian

Stephen, That set is a beauty! I really like it. Pity about the hole, I doubt it is original and who knows what caused it? You should perhaps have a word with Ford to find out if damage like that can be repaired. Looks worth it. Brian

I don't think he intends any deception. Probably to prevent coping the pics as mentioned, or to retain some degree of privacy since anyone with access can look up the details of that certificate. Yes, the papers can be copied from the website, but eBay is an easier venue to gather pics from and more public. Anyways, not a huge issue, I am sure the buyer could request the original pics. Brian

That is true, but I did that for free at the Taibundo sales show, and I am sure the DTI will have ample opportunities to do that too I don't mind a charge, they have lots of expenses for a show like this. But $450 for 2 people is more than I can budget for 2 days I think. Brian