Showa-To With Sword Examination By Mike Prill?

[vajo]

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=6802422

This sword seems curious for me.
It is for me a showa-to blade with seki stamp. Okada Kanesada was ranked as chuge saku (RJT)

The worth examination says the sword is 3.500 EUR worth. Where is the missing part.

Prill is sworn expert in the german law. So i would like to learn why this sword is so expensive?

[TheGermanBastard]

Because he says so

[vajo]

Haha Luis.

[TheGermanBastard]

Well, my answer sounds funny but I think it is defacto the most logical and rational reply that you can get.

[ROKUJURO]

....The value examination says the sword is 3.500 EUR........

Prill is sworn expert in the German law.....

As Luis said.

[PNSSHOGUN]

One of the most bogstandard Showato you will see, dark spots in the peaks of the hamon, muji-hada and doesn't even retain the original Gunto mountings. A sober price would be well under 1000 Euros....

[TheGermanBastard]

The question is what people are willing to pay for something. Will someone pay 3500? Sure! People mary someone just to findout it was a bad choice ... like with a marriage you have to observe the market and see if you find something better to attach yourself to ... and I think there are sexier thinsg with more bang for the buck on the market. I would put that sword at below USD 1500.00 ... would I buy it at 500.00 USD? No because I see no sense in buying such a blade at all as it not sexy ... but then again I am just an old pervert probably with a bad taste ...

 

In the end the old advice to buy a sword not a paper should always be considered. And if you are into papers you best look out for a recent NBTHK paper. In my cheap oppinion the next best thing is NTHK NPO, Fujishiro, NTHK Yoshikawa and then it pretty much gets academic but for some old Honami papers. This is just my own personal oppinion. Personally I would hold up the oppinions of quite a few people in very high regard and it is often sufficient for me. But again it is just oppinions, You can take mine for what it is worth ... since it is free don't expect anything.

[PNSSHOGUN]

I think it would be a very good buy at 500usd for a decent quality Showato perfect for Iaito and Tameshi. I think most collectors would agree that's where the road ends for this one and I'd be very wary of any other "evaluations" this Prill fellow starts hauling off on.

 

At 3500 euros I think he needs an evaluation at the Nuthouse.

[vajo]

Prill suggest that it is a true Nihonto. He said he is a sworn expert by the nbthk. Why he made this? That is a case for the nbthk in germany because the nbthk loose credibility, if they see this and do nothing.

[Hawley]

Sorry ...... but this is just the opinion of Mr. Prill!

If someone not agree with him, well .....ok no problem at all.

 

There are no official Experts of the NBTHK here in Germany.

He just write that he is a member of the NBTHK and nothing else.

 

I don't see any reason for the NBTHK to take action against this.

 

Just my two cent.

[Guido]

Maybe I'm missing something, but where does he claim to be certified by the NBTHK? He doesn't say so in the listing, and neither does he on his homepage (http://www.nihonto.eu/de/infos-nihonto/ueber-uns). He only states that he's a member.

 

I don't know this gentleman, and think that the sword is grotesquely overpriced. Judging from the pictures, I don't see any hada at all, it looks like a typical oil quenched, machine made shōwatō. The "papers" are worth as much as any other random opinion, and are quite pretentious.

[Higo-san]

Maybe I have missed something here: the expert opinion says that Mr Prill is a member of the NBTHK EB - however, I cannot find a passage where he states that he is an expert authorized by either the state or the NBTHK.

[vajo]

Sorry thats my failure. I didn't read exactly. He doesn't says he is a expert of the nbthk. But and this is another point. He point out that he is a expert for Japanese swords who earns money with the examination and he is a member of the nbthk. 

 

Look at his prices. That examiniation has cost 400 EUR.  And the customer belive he has bought from him a very worthy sword.

 

http://www.nihonto.eu/de/begutachtung/gutachten/

 

And he signs with

Name, Stamp and status:

managing director, member of the NBTHK EB (Nippon Bijutsu Token Hozen Kyokai).

 

 

That looks like a authority.

[CSM101]

Dear members,

 

I think you all don´t get the point: Instead of claiming that an oil quenched showato is just worth less than 1.00 EUR you all

should put a new price tag on all oil quenched showato. At least 3.000 EUR because there is an expert opinion saying so.

 

"Every day a sucker walks through the Karlstor" in Munich.

And Mike Prill found that person. So, congrats from my side.

 

This is just the textbook example for: inform first, buy later.

 

Just my one cent.

 

 

Uwe G.

[vajo]

Uwe that is the most worse sentence i ever read here. When a self made sword expert cheat someone you clap applause? And Prill is well known in the community. Very bad taste.

[Nihonto Europe]

Ich schreibe jetzt auf Deutsch, da ich im Moment nicht die Zeit habe meine Antwort, in angemessener Form, auf Englisch zu verfassen:

 

Vorgeschichte: Die Klinge wurde damals frisch poliert und erhielt eine komplett neue Koshirae. Dazu neue Beschlagteile aus Damaststahl, ein neues Habaki mit 24-Karat hartvergoldung, etc.

 

Der Kunde brauchte ein Wertgutachten über den Gegenstandswert. Dieser betrug damals 3.500 Euro.

 

Der Gegenstandswert (oder auch Objektwert) ist natürlich nicht gleich Verkaufswert (oder Handelswert bzw. Marktwert).

 

Der Gegenstandswert bezieht sich auf die Gesamtsumme, welche der Kunde insgesamt für sein Schwert ausgegeben hat (inkl. der Auftragsarbeiten) und bei Verlust z. B. wieder investieren müsste, um ein vergleichbares Objekt zu erhalten (hier € 3.500,-).

 

Möchte man erfahren wieviel das Stück bei einer Veräußerung erzielen kann, taxiert man dagen den Marktwert/Handelswert/Verkaufswert. Dieser ist natürlich schwerer zu bestimmen und weicht teilweise stark vom Gegenstandswert/Objektwert ab.

 

D. h.:

 

 

Marktwert/Handelswert/Verkaufswert: Die potentielle Summe, die ein Stück bei einer Veräußerung erzielen kann! Dieser Wert kann nur grob geschätzt werden, da der Erlös abhängig von der Verkaufsplattform und dem Zeitpunkt des Verkaufs ist, etc.

 

Diese Summe ist interessant, wenn man erfahren möchte, was das Stück bei einem Verkauf erzielen könnte.

 

Gegenstandswert/Objektwert: Bei Auftragsarbeiten die Summe der einzelnen Positionen (solange Material- und Lohnkosten sich im üblichen Bereich bewegen). Bei unveränderten Objekten der durchschnittliche Marktwert/Handelswert/Verkaufswert siehe oben.

Bei einer Vermischung wird die Summe der Auftragsarbeiten mit dem Marktwert eines unveränderten Objekts addiert...

 

Dieser Wert ist wichtig bei Schäden oder Verlust.

 

 

Ich arbeite nicht für die NBTHK, ich habe lediglich erwähnt das ich Mitglied bin. Es ist nicht unüblich solche oder ähnliche Mitgliedschaften zu erwähnen.

 

Meine Preise für Gutachten liegen zwischen € 30 und maximal € 400,-. Wobei letztere schon sehr umfangreich sind. Diese Preise bewegen sich durchschnittlich eher im unteren Bereich, wenn man sie mit den Kosten anderer Gutachten vergleicht.

 

 

Ich hoffe ich konnte damit die Sache etwas aufklären und bitte nochmals um Verständnis dafür, dass ich mich auf Deutsch geäußert habe.

 

Gruß,

Mike Prill

[ROKUJURO]

.....That looks like an authority.

 

That looks like a pricelist. Not impressive.

[Nihonto Europe]

Ich habe eben meine Unterlagen durchgesehen:

 

Das kurze Gutachten, inkl. Übersetzung und Zuordnung der Signatur, hat € 100,- gekostet! Wie ich schon erwähnt habe, die € 400,- werden nur sehr selten - und dann auch nur bei sehr umfangreichen Gutachten berechnet.

 

Das Schwert habe ich übrigens nicht verkauft! Lediglich die Arbeiten wurden bei mir durchgeführt.

 

Der Wert bezieht sich auf die Kosten dieser Arbeiten plus Wert der Klinge, damit bei Verlust oder Beschädigung das Stück gegen ein vergleichbares ersetzt bzw. restauriert werden kann. Hierfür müssen die gleichen Arbeiten an einer vergleichbaren Klinge durchgeführt werden, mit den entsprechenden Kosten.

[CSM101]

Uwe that is the most worse sentence i ever read here. When a self made sword expert cheat someone you clap applause? And Prill is well known in the community. Very bad taste.

Dear Chris,

 

I´ll give you another example: there is another Japanese sword on egun. I know the seller, I know the buyer and I know the sword. The sword was offered for more than 2 years

and was sold for 4.500 EUR.

 

I was asked, if the sword was worth the price and I said yes, at that moment it was worth 4.500 EUR because he paid that much. He never asked if I would have paid that

much or if he would ever get the money back. 2 weeks later he went to the seller and told him, that he wants to sell the sword now for 6.000 EUR and if he could

recommend someone who would pay that much. And this is another story of "inform first, buy later", because the  buyer got very greedy. And now you have some background infos.

 

Here you have now some background informations from Mike (thanks for that). So, before you start to overreact, you should go and inform yourself.

 

 

Uwe G.

[Brian]

Someone is going to have to translate.
And note that this site is NOT a witch hunt. People are allowed to ask whatever they like. No claims were made that are not true as far as i can see, and Mr Prill is entitled to ask whatever he likes for his swords.
Unless something worthy of news appears in this thread, I see no reason for it to be here.

[vajo]

`Sorry for the thread, but i have different ethics.

No problem with all.

[Nihonto Europe]

The most important points in English:

• At first: I did not sell this sword!
• This blade got a new polish and a new Koshirae plus fittings made of Damascus steel.
• He needed an appraisal to know how much he would have to pay to get a comparable, freshly polished blade with exactly that Custom-Koshirae if the sword is lost, stolen or destroyed. I did NOT estimate the market value.
• This report cost 100 euros, not 400 euros.

[takakage]

Hi,

 

Everybody can be a member of the Nbthk. You just need to pay your annual fees.