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Need Some Wakizashi Advice


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Hello all.

 

I'm new to the forum and collecting, though I did study nihonto a bit years ago when I lived in the UK and first got interested in the subject. Anyway I'm writing because I need some advice from more experienced collectors.

 

I'm about to buy a small Shinshinto wakizashi signed Bishu Osafune Sukesada. The sword is papered by NBTHK, authenticating the signature as that of a Shinshinto smith. The blade is on the small side with a 31.4 cm nagasa in good polish. The hamon is well defined gunome midare, with ashi ko nie deki.

 

However, there are a few issues: there' a small chip in the ha and another tiny nick a few centimeters down toward the hamachi. There is also some small but noticeable mune-ware about 17 cm from the kisaki. The asking price is $2300 US.

 

So my question is: is this the right blade at the proper price for my first sword?

 

More specifically are these small flaws reflected in the price? How does these impact its investment potential when I want to trade up? Does the fact that the sword is papered compensate to some degree for these flaws? Am I perhaps better off letting this one go, and saving a little more towards something else?

 

Also I was wondering, due to its slender size but perfect proportion, was this a child's blade, or just a small wakizashi, fashionable at the time?

 

I will attach photos and appreciate any and all advice.

 

Thanks,

Mushin

post-906-14196748129752_thumb.jpg

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Hi Mr Block (Please remember to sign posts with a real name)

 

I hate to comment on pending sales since our opinions can influence a sale, but since we don't know the seller I guess it is fair and not biased. Just remember that they are opinions and what counts most is whether you like it or not.

 

It looks like a nice little blade in good polish. Remember that a shinshinto due to its age has to be in good unmessed with condition. The fact that it is ubu helps, and this is a requirement for a shinshinto. However ware are a small negative in a recent sword and I wonder how much it has been polished in its life?

 

The chips are visible, but don't look too bad. Some live with them, and others it bugs constantly so you would have to decide how you feel about them. It will affect the resale value as will the short length and ware. These wouldn't be looked at as "battle scars" I think.

I think the papers are a big plus in that they allow you to know immediately what you have without speculating. I am unsure on the sword's purpose, but expect it was just a small sword as it doesn't look like a boy's sword to me, but it may be? I have a Sukesada with simillar shape and nagasa and am still unsure of what it was made for. Maybe just merchant's sword.

 

If you factor in the papers and polish, then you don't have a bad price there. A papered wakizashi would be at least $2K, but the name and sugata don't make it the most saleable, so I think you have to decide if it "does it for you" or not.

 

As with most things, you save up to buy the best you can afford. If you have the patience, then there are always nice swords out there, but you would need to add some funds. It all depends if you are going to start collecting, or just want your first piece that can satisfy the urge for a while.

 

I suspect that if you are asking now, then you have your doubts and if so, then you will always have second thoughts about it. If not, and you like it, then buy it and maybe sell oneday to upgrade. I know there might be totally different opinions, and you will have to make up your mind on whether to go for it or not. Imho, it isn't a bad deal, but koshirae would have sweetened the deal and it is in a pricerange where there will be other choices possibly, but you don't want to spend more than then still have to paper and polish.

 

Let's see what others have to say.

 

Brian

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Thanks, Brian. I understand the Sukesada signature was used by Sukehira or Sukenaga Yokoyama, if I am correct, were considered among the more prominent Shinshinto smiths, though I do not know this for a fact, and as best as I can make out the origami does not comment on. Is this fact true?

 

Coming back to the blade. It is nice and there is lot's of activity, and finding a papered sword at this price is not easy, but you are right I have my doubts. I am just not sure that there is not much better until you get into the $4000 plus price range. Anyway I am interested in what others can advise.

Thanks again,

Bobby

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My humble opinion,

I can only say that in my current financial situation, I wouldn't pay $2000+ for a shinshinto wakizashi with flaws, papered or not. Katana maybe but not a wakizashi. For that price you may be able to find a nice koto piece that just needs a little love.

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Bobby,

 

You like it, you buy it.

 

You have any doubt, don't buy it. That's all.

 

For investment :

 

- no suriage blade after Nambokucho

- Avoid machi okuri blade with several Mekugi ana on and after sue Koto

- Shinto/Shinshinto blades : pristine condition, no ware at all

- Buy a representative blade of a school (signed and papered)

 

This blade has a sanbonsugi hamon - atypical from the school.

 

All depends on your available funds :) :)

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http://www.aoi-art.com/sword/wakizashi/07263.html

Just giving out a few possibilities. This one works out to around $2350 and I would ask them if they think it would get papers, and ask if they would submit it for you.

I still don't think this one is a bad deal at all, but you should look at all options before deciding.

 

Regards,

Brian

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Ok..strictly speaking (as per Guido's and other's posts here, the one is a tanto (under 30.3cm) and the other is a wakizashi. The tanto would be a sunobi tanto (longer than standard length of 25.8cm) and I guess the wakizashi could be called sunzumari wakizashi?

 

Brian

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Im with Jean on that one, if you like it and have the funds, you get it.

But if you doubt and hesitate then look elsewhere.. As Brian posted, Aoi is a great seller and you can make great deals, plus they come with oshigatas that look pretty good when framed :P ;)

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As Jacques said, don't assume the mei is correct until you have papers. From what I hear about Aoi, if you ask him, you should get a decent opinion on whether it is right or not, but still there are no guarantees until you have origami. But as always, buy the blade and not the signature :)

 

Brian

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Gentlemen,

 

I cannot thank you enough for your feedback and thought-provoking advice. I did a quick trawl though some sites and also found this, which is a little more money, but is a much larger, older sword, and not so tanto-like:

 

http://www.ksky.ne.jp./~sumie99/sword21.html

 

But if I am not mistaken there are many collectors who look down on the school. Thoughts?

 

Again, thanks much.

 

Bobby

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Bobby,

 

Make up your mind!!!

 

Tanto, waki or daito???

 

Koto, shinto, shinshinto???

 

Price range????

 

Then have a look on Dr Stein commercial sites, make your selection in each category and we will give an opinion/choice.

 

Reminder : adviser is not the payer :D :D

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Sorry Jean. It's not my intention to be jumping around through periods and blade styles. It is an unintended consequence of my enthusiasm and lack of experience.

 

Anyway, what had initially attracted me to the Sukesada was the fact that is was in my price rage of under $3000, appeared in good polish and was papered, which I thought was important. I also was intrigued by the idea that it was likely a Sukenaga blade -- a reflection of the fact that I have read about his work. I did not like the fact the sword as ko and I would have preferred an older blade with some history, but I figured that in this price range, "burglars can't be choosers".

 

Now to styles: I was looking for a wakizashi as I felt I had the greatest chance of finding a nice first blade to study and admire in my price range. However, I did not have the sword to inspect until two days ago, when I noticed the mune-ware that raised my concern.

 

Perhaps the origami and Sukenaga link were not good reasons upon which to make my decision. There was a Bungo blade that I also liked but read so much about the downside of these blades that I shied away. It also was not papered. (http://www.swordsofjapan.com/Yukinaga.htm).

 

The only other swords that have come to my attention is the o-tanto/ko-wakizashi that Brian found, which is really nice (wonderful hada), but not exactly what I was looking for, and the other sword that I posted earlier. Again, these are unpapered, and possibly gimei.

 

With things in the States so economically topsy-turvy, and the job market so uncertain, I am hesitant to spend too much more right now. But for those same reasons, since I hit my savings goal I feel I am in a use it or lose it situation (sigh).

 

So all that said, I like the look and time period of the Bungo blade, but am not sure of its chances of getting the Hozon (and am looking at paying more). And I like the Sukesada blade but not the fact that it has ware and lacks a wider appeal – both of which could limit me later when I want to trade up. But then I am in a price range where I would like is beyond my grasp.

 

So in my quandary I thought turning to the collecting community for guidance was the best thing to do.

 

Thanks,

Bobby

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Bobby,

 

Jean's earlier comments about what to avoid for "investment" VERY are insightful - I'd add to the list that

any piece that isn't a "typical" size for what it is should be off the list too. In this case, the piece is short -

VERY short for a wakizashi (to my eye it looks a little too beefy to be a boy's day sword, which is a

different animal, sort of...), and I'd posit you will have great difficulty selling the piece regardless of

price in the future (as I am sure the current owner is finding out...).

 

In addition, its from an un-remarkable smith (there were a LOT of sukesada), and there may be an issue with the

ware (I've always thought they aren't so bad if they are up above the shinogi line and not huge, but I defer

to the observations of others on this), and probably the beforementioned atypical hamon.

 

Of course, on the other hand, a perfect, well sized, shin-shinto piece by somebody known is going to cost

more, so...

 

It might be best to figure out exactly what you want (katana, wakizashi, tanto, other), decide what

tradeoffs you are willing to make (what schools you want to look at, can you live with a mumei piece,

do you REALLY need it papered (contrary to popular belief, though the NBTHK is the "gold standard", they

aren't perfect, so...), etc., and focus on looking for that.

 

Good Luck on your decision,

 

rkg

(Richard George)

 

P.S.

 

FWIW, if you are looking for a Wak, there are a LOT of wakizashi out there, and you do see some very good

deals these days if you're patient. if you are looking for a katana in this kind of price range, You might

consider looking at some gendai pieces - some of them by "no name" smiths are actually pretty good

(though not as many as some would have you believe...) and they often pop up in servicable polish.

But on the other hand, as a beginning collector, you tend to have lots fewer problems sticking

to "Papered, Polished, Perfect" pieces, so...

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Reinhard wrote,

 

Is this still the Nihon-To section ???

 

There is no section "help to newbies" apart General Nihonto Discussion as stated by Remy, I suggest Brian to open one or to add this section to e-bay section, only NMB members wanting to help newbies would visit it :D :D :D

 

As usual, same question : what are NMB goals??

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Moved here as we are now discussing items for sale from online sellers etc.

This section is fine as far as I am concerned.

 

Brian

 

Btw, I agree with Jean, that wakizashi is a nice one at the price with lots to see. Looks like a reasonable deal to me.

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Not a high ranked smith.

 

That's reflected in the price, I buy a blade and not a smith (unless saijo and then taking into account the price, I can be difficult - but not in this range of price)

 

Shoshin? Are you sure Jean?

 

I just notice it is the second time in this topic, you are questionning Tsuruta san judgment/statement. As far as I know, when there is any doubt on the mei or anything fishy, Tsruta san states "not reliable signature".

 

To answer your question : Yes I think that the mei is shoshin for the reason you have just stated :

 

Not a high ranked smith.

 

This mei has no added value

 

If you have any doubt Jacques, do not hesitate to ask Tsuruta san about both signatures, he will answer you straightforward or put in to shinsa if you request it (provided you pay for it :) :) )

 

"We offer high quality Japanese swords, sword fittings, and armors.

You can return the goods if they are defective or if you do not want.

In that case, please return the goods within a week. We will buy back immediately.

http://www.aoi-art.com/ "

:D :D
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Well here is Jacques' control mei vs the Aoi one for comparisson.

:dunno:

Can anyone verify with Tsuruta san that if he suspects a mei he writes "unverified" and if that isn't there then he has a good idea it is shoshin? Would help us all.

 

Brian

 

Edit to add: The yakidashi, yasurime, boshi and hamon stlye seem to be a close match though. There seem to be natural variances in his mei too. Not sure what conclusion I would come to.

zb3m.jpg

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