brap Posted January 10, 2012 Report Posted January 10, 2012 I am trying to translate this mei. Any help is appreciated. Thanks Jay Plant Quote
brap Posted January 10, 2012 Author Report Posted January 10, 2012 a few more pictures I am probably wrong but, does it read: Harima No Kami Daijo Fujiwara Tada Kuni ? I am pretty new at this. Jay Plant Quote
Grey Doffin Posted January 10, 2012 Report Posted January 10, 2012 Harima no Kami Fujiwara Tadakuni. You would never have both Kami and Daijo in one mei; each are titles and the smith is one or the other but not both at the same time. Grey Quote
brap Posted January 10, 2012 Author Report Posted January 10, 2012 Thank you for the help. I understand what you are saying. Does Kami mean lord? If it does, is this signature saying that the smith has the title of lord? Jay Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted January 10, 2012 Report Posted January 10, 2012 No it doesn't mean Lord, but there was a period when smiths liked to collect grandiose titles. Perhaps it is closer to "Protector of Province X", and possibly two people would not hold this at the same time. (?). Quote
Nobody Posted January 10, 2012 Report Posted January 10, 2012 Ref. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11736&p=100419&hilit=kami#p100419 Quote
Jim P Posted January 11, 2012 Report Posted January 11, 2012 Hi Jay,If the mei is right this is a 1st gen or 2st gen Hizen Tadakuni only first and second used Harima no Kami Fujiwara Tadakuni, the first in later works Do you have pics of the blade ? Quote
brap Posted January 12, 2012 Author Report Posted January 12, 2012 Here are some pictures of the blade. Thank You Jay Quote
runagmc Posted January 12, 2012 Report Posted January 12, 2012 This sword may be a good canidate for restoration, in my opinion, as long as there aren't any critical flaws visible... hopefully the rust isn't too deep... Quote
Guido Posted January 12, 2012 Report Posted January 12, 2012 No it doesn't mean Lord, but there was a period when smiths liked to collect grandiose titles. Perhaps it is closer to "Protector of Province X", and possibly two people would not hold this at the same time. (?).Another excerpt from my many unfinished articles:Zuryō 受領 - gubernatorial titles Japan was divided into 54 Kuni 国, or provinces, at the time of the Taika reform. Some of those Kuni were divided later, and some were added, so that in 823 AD the number was 68, which didn’t change until the Meiji 明治 restoration in 1868. The Kuni were ranked, according to their size, as Taikoku 大国, Jōkoku 上国, Chūkoku 中国 and Gekoku 下国. Originally governed by officials with the Kabane “Kuni no Miyatsuko” and “Inagi”, of which emperor Jimmu 神武天皇 had appointed 144, they were replaced during the reign of emperor Kōtoku 孝徳天皇 in the early Nara period 奈良時代 by the Kokushi 国司. The Kokushi, gubernatorial officials, were headed by a Kokushu 国守, governor, and the titles they held are called Zuryō 受領. The Zuryō were (in descending order): no Kami 守 (governor, title of the Kokushu) no Suke 介 (vice governor) no Jō 掾 no Sakan 目 no Shijō 史生 Depending on the size of the province, the titles below “no Kami” were further differentiated, using either the prefixes Dai 大 or Shō 小 (in these cases the possessive predicate “no” is omitted): Daisuke 大介, Shōsuke 小介, Daijō 大掾, Shōjō 小掾, Daisakan 大目, Shōsakan 小目, Daishijō 大史生, Shōshijō 小史生. Moreover, a professor of literature (with a number of pupils ranging from 20 to 50), and a doctor of medicine (with 4 to 10 pupils) were assigned to each province. At first, the period in office for the Kokushi was 6 years. In 702 AD, this was reduced to 4 years by emperor Mommu 文武天皇, and again lengthened to 6 years in 755 AD by emperor Kōken 考謙天皇. Later the assignment was 4 to 5 years, depending on the distance to the capital. Most Kokushu took permanent residence in the capital, and were represented by Mokudai 目代 (also called Rusushoku 留守職) in the provinces. Domains with which the emperor rewarded princes or high officials were called Shōen 荘園, the possessors thereof Shōji 荘司. The Shōji had only the produce of those lands, the land itself remained imperial property. The government of the land became more difficult as the number of Shōen increased; some territorial lords started calling their domains Shōen, too, and in the eleventh century half of the country was thus converted into Shōen. Some emperors tried to enact laws against this practice, but to no avail. Minamoto no Yoritomo 源頼朝, the first Shōgun, started reforming this system with the goal of gaining stronger control over the lands. In 1185 AD he entrusted the administration of the provinces to his vassals, who were called Jitō 地頭 in the imperial domains of the Shōji, and Shugo 守護 (or Shugoshoku 守護職) when appointed to “assist” a Kokushi. The Kantō 関東 provinces, which were directly under his jurisdiction, were governed by Kuni-bugyō 国奉行. The Shugo, who at first were called Sōtsuibushi 総追捕使, collected taxes, dispensed justice, and levied troops in case of war, gradually extended their power over the Shōen, too, reducing the Jitō to secondary positions. Yoritomo himself was known by the title of Nihon-Sōtsuibushi 日本総追捕使 or Rokujūhakkakoku (68 provinces) no Sōtsuibushi 六十八ヶ国総追捕使. Another change came with Ashikaga 足利 Shōgunate. The Shugo became more powerful, and some governed several provinces. After the Ōnin war 応仁乱, they began to replace the Kokushi, gradually forming the class of Daimyō 大名, and the Jitō were replaced by Gokenin 御家人, house vassals. The Zuryō became in most cases merely honorific, awarded for merits in battle etc., and the holders had no jurisdiction over the respective provinces. There were, for instance, several Bizen no Kami 備前守 and Shinano no Kami 信濃守 at the same time. Some exceptions applied, like the Shimazu 島津, Daimyō of Kagoshima 鹿児島, who bore the hereditary title of Satsuma no Kami 薩摩守. The capital – first Nara 奈良, and then Heiankyō 平安京 (present day Kyōto 京都), had its own governors, the Sakyōshiki 左京職 for the eastern part, and the Ukyōshiki 右京職 for the western part. The titles were Tayū 太夫, no Suke 亮, no Shin 進 and no Sakan屬. Quote
brap Posted January 13, 2012 Author Report Posted January 13, 2012 Thank you for all of this information. I guess it is not a very good question but, are these kind of markings very common? I have not been collecting swords very long but, I have not run across many with titles in the mei. Thanks Jay Quote
Grey Doffin Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 I have a list of every title and every smith with the title, 16 pages with maybe 70 to 80 smiths per page. That makes somewhere between 1,100 and 1,300 titled smiths, but some smiths had 2 different titles during their careers (started as Harima no Daijo and moved up to Harima no Kami, for instance). Maybe between 800 and 1,100 smiths total? So, not common but not uncommon either. Grey Quote
Curran Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 Grey, Low on printer paper, but I'd love a copy of that list. It would help buckets if I ever dust off my brain and try to learn my Shinto and Shinshinto schools better. Quote
Jean Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 Here is a first one Curran http://www.sho-shin.com/titles.htm Quote
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