WW2 fake or real?

[TTyMiller]

Hello I'm new to the board, learning so much so fast.

 

Can anyone tell me anything about this sword is it real or fake mainly.

 

thank you.

[Grey Doffin]

Hi, name please,

This is a real Japanese military sword. The signature is Yoshitada and the date looks to be Showa Ni Ju Nen (1945). There is an oshigata in Fuller & Gregory's A Guide To Showa Swordsmiths, #85, that is a match.

Grey

[TTyMiller]

Thanks Grey, my name is Terry.

 

Do you have any idea what seems to be dragons represent which first look to me as the number 28? The blade and forgive my ignorance , I still learning the terminology seems to be mint; how ever it is not as sharp as I would have expected.

 

I assume this is a hand made sword by a smith and not machined?

 

It's good to be here!

 

TTyMiller

[Brian]

Terry,

The painted numbers are of no real consequence. They are military rack or arsenal markings, nothing to worry about at all.

I think this may be a Showato..which means non-traditionally made sword, made by a smith but considered partly machine made. Basically your average wartime sword. I could be wrong, but it seems as such.

I think what is giving the impression of a minty blade is actually buffing or overcleaning of the blade at some point. The high gloss finish and rounded edges are indicators of this. Might just be the photos. Anyways, at worst, an example of a genuine wartime Japanese Sword, and at best, a handmade WW2 sword. In hand inspection might be necessary to tell more.

 

Brian

[cabowen]

This is not a traditionally made blade. Oil quenched, probably western steel.

 

Has anyone ever seen a traditionally made blade in these olive green, iron fitting, type 3 mounts? I have seen hundreds of these (maybe more!) and not one has ever contained a traditionally made blade.....One of these was my first sword, purchased when I was 12 years old.....

[Bruno]

I agree with you Chris, it seems all of them are mass produced oil quenched sunobe to(almost all the same except for the mei). But those in semi rought lacquered saya seems to be of much better quality.

[mdiddy]

Has anyone ever seen a traditionally made blade in these olive green, iron fitting, type 98 mounts?

 

I have owned a katana by Sanyo Kazunori that was in these olive green mounts. It was made in 1944, not star-stamped, but showed hada and had an active hamon with ko-ashi and nie hotsure. It may not have been made of pure tamahagane, but it was certainly a step above most low-grade oil-quenched showa-to that are mostly seen in these mounts. Attached are a couple of pics below.

 

Also, here is a star-stamped Kanehide from Danny Massey's site that is mounted in these olive green mounts: http://www.nihontocraft.com/Kanehide.html

 

Here is another: http://www.samuraisword.com/nihonto_c/S ... /index.htm

[cabowen]

Thanks....first I have seen. Interesting that two of them have blades by the same smith, Kanehide.....

[TTyMiller]

Thanks to all that took the time to provide me with some fedback and those that viewed also. This is my first sword but certainly not my last. I have a couple of books that I've been going over to educate myself on this subject.

 

I look forward to some very interesting exchanges in the future.

[mdiddy]

Interesting that two of them have blades by the same smith, Kanehide.....

 

I thought about that and my hypothesis is that it has less to do with concentration of quality blades in the Olive green type 98 mounts by smith and more to do with offering choice from higher end commercial websites.

[Bruno]

BTW I think the correct name of this mount is Type 3 not Type 98.

[mdiddy]

I think the correct name of this mount is Type 3 not Type 98

 

Bruno - I agree. I think Type 3 is correct and we were incorrect with Type 98. Good catch.

[cabowen]

I have edited my post to correct the mistake.....

[TTyMiller]

Yes this is a Type 3, Type 98 had painted wooden scabbards. Chris was that the type you purchased as your first sword at the age of 12?

[cabowen]

Yes this is a Type 3, Type 98 had painted wooden scabbards. Chris was that the type you purchased as your first sword at the age of 12?

 

It was a type 3.....Cost me $35 earned cutting the lawn twice a week for a whole summer....

[Sporkkaji]

Has anyone ever seen a traditionally made blade in these olive green, iron fitting, type 3 mounts? I have seen hundreds of these (maybe more!) and not one has ever contained a traditionally made blade

 

This 1945 dated Gendaito I picked up on Ebay was in very rough type-3 mounts with iron fittings, simulated rayskin wrap, and a painted metal saya. I'm told though that the blade is high quality. viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9168&p=76120

[estcrh]

Thanks Grey, my name is Terry.

 

I still learning the terminology

 

Terry,here is a link to a Japanese sword glossary from one of the forum members, it may come in handy!!

http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/glossary.htm

[TTyMiller]

Well I certainly overpaid for this one Chris!

 

Thanks for the info Eric.

[markc]

Just recieved a sword by the same maker yesterday. Kinoshita Yoshitada , no 1 seat RJT swordsmith in the same mounts as yours and same date. Through microscopic examination my sword exibits hand made water tempered qualities such as hada, nei and abundant large martensite crystals. I am as far removed from an expert as you can get but have worked out a system that works for me totally non scientific. I own a control group of swords (15+) that i use for comparison eg non trad mill steel etc, trad made tamehange water quenched, oil quenched etc. My sword exibits the qualities of a handmade waterquenched sword?

Also i have seen two examples of swords in 44 mounts in the last two days by this maker that are for sale for around $4000 Aud or Us

To give an example i have a sword made by "nobumitsu" who is classed in Sloughs as low grade showato, the one i have is clearly handmade waterquenched so there is always an exception to the rule.

 

Thanks

Markc :D

[TTyMiller]

Hi Mark thanks for the info. I'm certain I have a good sword and got it for a good price. I was just being sarcastic with 12 yr old Chris. I did some homework before hand and the pictures as Brian said; you can't really go by. Sure I'm learning but a fool and his money should have never gotten together in the first place.

 

Would you mind posting some pics?

[David Flynn]

there is more than one Nobumitsu.

[markc]

Hi Terry,

haven't got much time at the moment, just a fiew pics for you.

 

thanks

Markc

:D

[markc]

David,

the one i have is "sukemitsu nobumitsu" also can be read as "sako nobumitsu" pg 135 Sloughs.

 

Thanks

Markc

[David Flynn]

Mark, by the pics, it looks like a showato to me.