Gold Dragon Menuki

[Prewar70]

I recently purchased a sword, and the fittings look good to me.  I brought the tsuka to my local jeweler and she tested the menuki in several spots with her radar looking gun.  They came back ranging from 14-17kt gold.  I don't plan on removing them unless someone thinks I should.  I'm wondering what you can discern from the pictures.  Is it unusual that they're gold?  Does automatically indicate a good maker and quality?  Thank you for your help.

[Prewar70]

[Geraint]

Dear James.

 

It is not entirely unusual to have gold menuki, what you do next is of course up to you.  I would love to see a picture of the entire koshirae but the really nice wrap is going to need redoing and you need to find someone who can do it justice.  While this is happening you could remove the menuki and replace them with similar shakudo examples.  For me the decision would hang on whether the koshirae was original or not, I note that it does not seem to have seppa, do you have a feeling that this has been put together or perhaps the tsuba has been swopped out?  The tsuka appears to be original and attractive so my perspective would be re wrap just as it is including these menuki.  

 

Dealers and collectors have always been inclined to swap fittings, more money to be made selling the boxed fittings and putting together a koshirae.  Personally I would regard that as heresy and would want to retain anything original about the sword.  If the seppa are indeed missing then you might have to change the Namban tsuba for something thinner, add seppa, and that would change the dynamic somewhat.

 

Looking forward to a picture of the whole thing and what others have to say.

 

All the best.

 

 

[ROKUJURO]

James,

the MENUKI may be pure gold or gold-covered. You will have problems seeing that mounted, so - as Geraint stated - when the TSUKA-ITO is being redone, you can have a look at the backside of the MENUKI. 

[Prewar70]

Hello and thanks for the info.   I’ve attached some additional pictures.   Geraint the seppa and TSUBA were definitely cobbled together.   The remaining all seem to be a set and overall a nice package.   They appear to have a copper base maybe judging by some color coming through.   The wire inlay has a nice gold color.   

[Prewar70]

[Prewar70]

[Prewar70]

[Prewar70]

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[Prewar70]

[Spartancrest]

Wow! A rare CARVED  namban double dragon tsuba - so many of this design are cast pieces - very nice indeed!

       

[Bugyotsuji]

Thanks for showing these. A nice overall package! 

 

[Prewar70]

Had them tested again, about 17kt.  I don’t see any signature but if anyone can determine anything from this I’d like to discuss.  Thx

[Prewar70]

[Prewar70]

[Prewar70]

[buchtas]

I love the style of the matching fittings (kojiri, kurikata, fuchi kashira, koiguchi.....), can anyone come up with name of the style of it? like hammered/dotted fittings or something like that. To me it is very aesthically pleasing, very nice. Congratulations on nice koshirae.

Also the mokume esque saya is also really nicely done.

[ChrisW]

A shame you had them removed! String wrap tsukamaki is a rather expensive option. I'm assuming that it just disintegrated beyond what you could save. A real pity.

[Prewar70]

Hey Chris, I removed one of them because it was disintegrating on top of the menuki and there were pieces held together with some glue. So I helped one of them out to see what I could learn.

[Ian B3HR2UH]

And what did you learn ? Hopefully not to mess with the koshirae next time

[Prewar70]

Really?  Why do you say that and is it not important to find out?

[ROKUJURO]

Not really. The gold value may be less than the artistic and cultural value in some items, depending on the artist.

[Prewar70]

Is there anything curious about the menuki or would shinsa have to decide.  I’ve seen several unsigned Goto menuki that share similarities.   Does the quality look right?

[Prewar70]

There are a lot of experts here and I was hoping for more input.  @Ian brooks I appreciate your input but can you give any insight besides that I should not have removed it?  In my mind why use solid gold to make there unless they were from a good maker or is this more common than I realize.  Does the quality look good enough to investigate further?   Would you send to shinsa, something I’ve never done with tsogu?   I’m really trying to learn and everyone that’s commented I appreciate.  The overall package seems higher quality to me. 

[Bugyotsuji]

There are many gold substitutes out there. Gold does not tarnish. Solid gold is expensive so they would be very rare, examples are more often gilded onto copper, or sometimes lead for the realistic lead weight.

The first rule of thumb is to weight them in your hand.

[Prewar70]

They are heavy in the hand and I did have them tested inside and out in different spots and all came back at just under 17kt

[Bugyotsuji]

From memory I think 17k is about right.

[Ian B3HR2UH]

Your initial photos showed the menuki well . To my mind they looked cast and not very crisp but it is hard to tell from photos . Our member Chishiki has some papered gold menuki and if he reads this I hope he will comment