Two wakizashi information if possible

[kro]

Hi all , new here I've recently purchased these two wakizashi one is signed apparently from the sue-koto period tang has been over cleaned in the past has a couple of flaws , the other isnt signed don't know any thing about it , i purchased these as a Christmas gift for my father and I just want to see if any one could tell me any more information on them before I give them to him , please see the pictures and any information would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks 

[kro]

[kro]

[Hector]

I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings but I believe them to be both Chinese replicas. However, I'm just finding my feet around here myself so I'd wait for some of the actual knowledgeable people to chime in.

[kro]

I already have a report for the signed sword to be genuine, im just after other opinions to see if any one else would have any info on them 👍

[Brian]

No, they are real. Just in poor condition. I believe the one is fitted with half a double habaki and you'll want to get that sorted sometime.

[Geraint]

Dear Craig.

 

Just to add to Brian's assessment the very slender and poorly formed 'habaki' are someone's half hearted attempt at DIY.  Both blades are Japanese but I think both have been cobbled together with assorted fittings to run them into complete swords.  Your photographs don't allow a detailed response but the shape of the tsuka and the wrap on the second look suspect.  However if my sons had done this for me I would be very happy so don't let anything spoil that.

 

All the best.

Edited December 19 by Geraint

[kro]

Thank you for the responses so far, I did suspect they had been put together to make full swords , thia can be rectified over time , and yes condition is not the greatest and I am debating on polishing both blades , picture wise if you need better detailed pictures then let me know .

[vajo]

Real swords as Brian said. But avoid to make pictures with flash. I think that is a nice tsuba. 

The swords are in bad condition. Try to make better pictures without flashlight on a neutral background maybe in sunlight. 

I think they will look different then.

 

Edited December 19 by vajo

[Scogg]

Obligatory disclaimer:

Only a highly qualified togishi should be tasked with polishing genuine Japanese swords. Any attempt to polish yourself at home, will likely cause more harm than good.

It's better to leave them in poor condition, then it is to attempt any unqualified polishing. 

I agree with Chris (Vajo), that tsuba looks promising.
-Sam
 

[kro]

Thank you for the replys , i shall try and get better pictures tomorrow outside in natural light , i feel confident i could polish them back to life I've worked with metal for 26 years so I have a good understanding not saying I can do pro standards but just rectify what's already been done . 

 

Yes the brass dragon tsuba is very nice 

[Brian]

You can't. And you shouldn't. 

[Scogg]

It is considered unethical to polish a nihonto unless one is a properly trained togishi within the Japanese tradition. General metalworking experience, even decades of it, does not qualify someone to work on a Japanese sword.

Polishing a nihonto without that training risks permanently destroying historical, cultural, and artistic value that cannot be restored.
 

The steel itself is fundamentally different. Nihonto are made from tamahagane derived from iron sand, and it behaves unlike other modern steels or metals. Its structure, layering, and heat treatment require specialized knowledge developed through years of apprenticeship; not transferable from other forms of metalwork.
 

Here on the Nihonto Message Board we are dedicated to the study and preservation of Japanese swords; and DIY polishing is entirely opposite of those goals. 
 

I hope this clarifies things. 
Sincerely,
-Sam
 

 

[vajo]

Someone tried to make a kitchen knife from it. All lines are gone... Captain Dremel is on the bridge 

 

[kro]

They are still there the blade is just dull ill try to get better picture

 

[vajo]

The shinogi is round and the nakago has some grinding signs. Do what ever you wanted to do, its your sword. But I'm sure it will look terrible after you start to grind it.

[kro]

Who mentioned any thing to do with grinding or power tools? I certainly didn't 

[kro]

 

Edited December 19 by kro

[ROKUJURO]

The signature reads BISHU OSAFUNE JU, but I can't make out the smith in these photos. Try a dark, non-reflecting background, a dark room and spotlights. All photos tip-upwards, especially NAKAGO. Always use cut-outs so very little background is to be seen.

The TSUKA (= handle) of the second sword is not Japanese.

If you have not seen many authentic Japanese swords in very good condition from close, you will not know what a sword should look like. How then will you polish a blade? Unless you see red rust which should be dealt with, these blades need  a competent hand, not just made "shiny". 

With better photos, we can probably help you to preserve the value of these swords. 

[Robert S]

A few comments on condition.  The first blade, based on these photos, seems to have fairly significant corrosion spots which are possibly a little deeper than just surface discoloration.  I've seen blades like this before.  The second blade appears to have a very unusual gouge, as well as a significant chip in the edge.  If I'm correct on these issues, both would require major work to recover, which inevitably involves complex work to maintain the shape of the blade, determining exactly how much work to do to minimize the risk of exposing underlying metal, or having the hamon run out of the edge, etc.  Hence the need for an experienced togishi (polisher) if full recovery is possible.  

 

Secondly, as regards finish polishing, Nihonto finish polishing is very different than conventional western polishing, which I am used to.  Based on observation, videos, etc., I believe that the final stone used combines an extremely unusual combination of moderately fine grit (5000 ish), and relatively soft particles.  It doesn't behave at all like a conventional western 5000 stone, as can be seen if you observe professionally polished nihonto.  The stone hardness also varies and the togishi selects the right one based on the specifics of the blade... and the stones are only occasionally available and very expensive.

 

All to explain why folks on this forum are pretty clear about using professionally trained togishi.

[John C]

Craig:

Not to beat a dead horse, however another consideration with polishing a Japanese sword isn't just bringing out the hamon, its shape. Incorrect polishing changes the shape of the blade, which is how it is sharpened. Notice there is no secondary bevel on the edge like a western blade. It takes years of practice and training to learn that skill. And unfortunately, changing the shape too much can permanently ruin the blade.

Just my two cents.

 

John C.

[Hector]

On 12/19/2025 at 1:51 PM, kro said:

I already have a report for the signed sword to be genuine, im just after other opinions to see if any one else would have any info on them 👍

I apologize for the bad call!

The ersatz habaki and odd hilt binding threw me totally off. As I said, I am learning myself. 
It's a really nice present for your father!