Tsuba Collector Posted October 1 Report Posted October 1 Bought this at a flea market in Japan. Wasn’t expecting much since it’s my first tsuba, just liked the design. Was hoping to learn more about it if anyone has some insight. After doing a bit of my own research - landscape design seems like a pretty common design for tsuba. 1 Quote
Shugyosha Posted October 1 Report Posted October 1 Hi Jay, Welcome to the forum. From what I can see (on my phone with old eyes) it doesn’t look like a modern copy. I’d suggest maybe 19th century, made for the export trade, but not cast. It can be difficult to kantei tsuba based on design alone as there were books of designs circulating and popular ones were reproduced. There’s some nice carving there and I hope you enjoy your new tsuba. Quote
Tsuba Collector Posted October 2 Author Report Posted October 2 (edited) Hi John, Thanks for the reply! Just getting into the hobby so look forward to browsing the forums more. I was reading that the rust, carving and texture of the tuba can often differentiate them from casts. It’s seems like quite the art form. If you don’t mind me asking, what features make you say it’s a 19th century tsuba? Edited October 2 by Tsuba Collector Misspelling Quote
Grey Doffin Posted October 2 Report Posted October 2 Hi Jay, I am concerned that this is an iron tsuba that has never been mounted; there are no soft metal shims to provide a snug, non abrasive fit around the blade's nakago and no evidence that there ever were any. Also, the nakagao hitsu-ana appears to be too tall for its width; it looks unnatural. I suspect John is correct in his estimation and 19th century (or maybe 20th) made for export isn't good news. But I can be wrong. Grey 1 Quote
Tsuba Collector Posted October 2 Author Report Posted October 2 Hi Grey, Appreciate the reply! Even if it wasn’t mounted - still interested in the history and it’s my first tsuba so that’s okay. Appreciate learning from all the replies! Thank you for your expertise and time. Quote
ROKUJURO Posted October 2 Report Posted October 2 (edited) Jay, it is a difficult task to judge a TSUBA from images alone, but as you have it in hand, you may be able to get a relevant assessment. If you imagine how the carving on TSUBA of this style are made, you will find that the tools used leave typical traces. In your case, the chisels (= TAGANE) used to cut the design of mountains and water (SANSUI) will leave a smooth surface in the lines. Now when you use a magnification glass you can judge by yourself if these grooves have a "sandy" surface (which would be a hint towards cast technique) or if they look cut by a sharp tool. As the TSUBA does not look 'old' from its general appearance, you could exclude corrosion/rust having caused a rough surface. All openings in a TSUBA can be reworked and smoothed-out after the production, so in case one does not find traces for cast technique there, this does not mean so much. But in my experience, the design cut with TAGANE is never reworked so looking carefully at how the TSUBA was actually made will teach you a lot about its origin and age. The small gold (or brass) embellishments can be applied on a cast TSUBA blank and are no evidence for a hand-forged TSUBA. THIS THREAD BELONGS IN THE TOSOGU SECTION! Edited October 2 by ROKUJURO 1 Quote
Spartancrest Posted October 2 Report Posted October 2 (edited) Hi Jay and welcome. I believe it is a typical Shoami school piece, they are relatively common and tend to have a waterfall and mountain scene - with minimal soft metal overlay [nunome] and some inlay. There is a notch at the bottom of the nakago-ana that suggests it has been mounted [but probably only briefly]. I am a little surprised that it is not signed, most are. [not being signed can be a "good" thing - many have fake signatures] Compare it to this one that is cast, the hitsu are rough and not filed smooth the "signature" is crude and to my eyes obviously cast-in [IMHO] Fake signature : 正阿弥包矩 (Shoami-Kanenori) Compare the cast signature to the tachi-mokko one. I strongly believe Jay's piece is hand carved, the cloud swirls on the ura are carved-in not cast. Another selling on ebay - signed and with the characteristic waterfall on one side, rocks on the opposite. Some appear "rushed" and like this one are often neglected [unsigned as well] The Tachi-mokko shaped examples are also common, each have subtle design differences, check this thread: You can also check out this auction site https://www.eldreds.com/auction-lot/iron-shin-no-maru-gata-tsuba-signed-eichizen-kin_6EB3733865 They don't know their stuff, as it is NOT signed Echizen Kinai! Edited October 2 by Spartancrest MORE LINKS 5 Quote
MauroP Posted October 2 Report Posted October 2 100% agree with what Dale says. If a tsuba fits a Shōami attribution this is one (and many doesn't...) 1 1 Quote
Tsuba Collector Posted Friday at 02:44 AM Author Report Posted Friday at 02:44 AM Hey, thanks everyone for the reply’s! I have learned a lot from everyone’s input. This is really interesting learning how everyone looks at pieces. Really appreciate all your expertise! If I wanted to look into tsuba making history and learn what features identify quality tsuba’s any reading material that you might recommend? Appreciate the link to that thread @Spartancrest! 1 Quote
Jake6500 Posted Friday at 09:59 AM Report Posted Friday at 09:59 AM (edited) 7 hours ago, Tsuba Collector said: Hey, thanks everyone for the reply’s! I have learned a lot from everyone’s input. This is really interesting learning how everyone looks at pieces. Really appreciate all your expertise! If I wanted to look into tsuba making history and learn what features identify quality tsuba’s any reading material that you might recommend? Appreciate the link to that thread @Spartancrest! Dale is our resident Tosogu expert. We are all astonished at how he can pull up examples of tsuba from ancient tomes. One of the ways you can judge the age are by the shape of the hitsu-ana (hole on the side). Older tsuba tend to have different shaped hitsu, narrower or sometimes more triangular in shape if you're looking at a tsuba that is old enough (Muromachi). The other thing is that back in these earlier pre-Edo periods tsuba generally took a mokko-gata (flower) shape instead of the more circular shape we see in Edo Period pieces. Not all mokko-gata tsuba are necessarily that old (there are many examples of Edo period ones that emulate the old style) but it is still a useful indication. Edited Friday at 10:01 AM by Jake6500 Quote
Spartancrest Posted Friday at 12:20 PM Report Posted Friday at 12:20 PM 2 hours ago, Jake6500 said: he can pull up examples of tsuba from ancient tomes It is easy when you are nearly as old as the tomes themselves! Still it's not the age, it's the mileage! 4 Quote
Spartancrest Posted yesterday at 04:26 AM Report Posted yesterday at 04:26 AM https://searchcollection.asianart.org/objects/530/sword-guard-tsuba-with-design-of-a-waterfall-and-rocks https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/tsuba-amurai-sig-kanenori-waterfall-1860203375 1 Quote
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