Thoughts on this sword I just picked up

[Rayhan]

6 minutes ago, Alex A said:

Rayhan.

 

I suggested that the sword gets shown to a polisher who will see it in hand and give his thoughts, before money is spent.

 

Learned a long time ago as to shut up on what can and cant be sorted out, as im not a polisher and we are looking at pictures. Seen what appeared unsalvageable come up ok. Im not suggesting this swords gets shipped to Japan for a top notch polish.

 

The nakago has been messed with, cleaned. Ok, so its not the perfect example of suriage and is not in amazing condition, that's something the owner needs to consider.

 

If the bohi was added much later, i would not of assumed it would run the full length of the blade and down and off the nakago. I feel it would have been done not so long after it was made. The bo-hi in the nakago shows some age, wear and patina that has not been cleaned.

 

Im not judging an out of polish sword on the quality of the bohi, from PICTURES. As mentioned, pictures are misleading.

 

Also, seen many real good swords with Bo-hi and horimono that have not been done so well.

 

Ian, we are not giving people false hope. He has been given advice to speak with someone with more knowledge that can assess it, in hand.

 

 

@Alex A it would be better if we helped @Eric187 learn to look at a blade in hand rather than send it to a polisher to further advise him. I do not understand how a sword can be good if it has now got a bad Bohi or Horimono, perhaps the sword was once good, but with bad Horimono or bad Bohi it is no longer a good sword. 

[Alex A]

That's up to the owner to decide Rayhan.

 

He now has many opinions.

[sabiji]

7 hours ago, Rayhan said:

•  

In your swords case the Horimono is half way up the sword and in the Ji mostly. Horimono are placed towards the lower part of the Nagasa because that is also the thicker part of the sword. Then there is the mystical ball....If you practice Iai or Kendo or read about Nihonto you will know that the 15CM or 150MM from the Yokote down on the Ura and Omote are the striking area on an offensive and you would not put a magical mystical ball in the Ji here and introduce a point of structural weakness.... I have never seen it.

 

The Samurai Museum Berlin has a katana with a 74 cm nagasa, covered in horimono along its entire length. A very large naga-bonji has been added to the monouchi. The blade is by Hizen Iyo no Jo Munetsugu, has TokuHo and a sayagaki by Tanobe-Sensei from 2006.
I am not a Hizen expert, but Munetsugu's horimono seem typical of Hizen to me. The horimono are centered on the shinogiji and thus affect the ji and the shinogiji in equal measure.
I don't like this type of horimono, but they do exist. And that brings me back to my saying, “there is nothing that does not exist.”

However, I find the composition of the horimono on the sword in this thread very strange. Even if it is pure speculation, the figurative horimono are probably much later than the bohi.

 

[Jussi Ekholm]

The dragon horimono style is called 珠追龍 - Tamaoi Ryū.

[When Necessary]

When we say that 'X' or 'Y' makes a blade bad, there are always exceptions. A missing boshi obviously makes a blade bad - but not if it's Heian jidai as judged by the NBTHK.

[Rayhan]

8 minutes ago, Jussi Ekholm said:

The dragon horimono style is called 珠追龍 - Tamaoi Ryū.

No no what is the style of the dragon in the middle of the Ji chasing a magic ball?

[Rayhan]

12 minutes ago, sabiji said:

The Samurai Museum Berlin has a katana with a 74 cm nagasa, covered in horimono along its entire length. A very large naga-bonji has been added to the monouchi. The blade is by Hizen Iyo no Jo Munetsugu, has TokuHo and a sayagaki by Tanobe-Sensei from 2006.
I am not a Hizen expert, but Munetsugu's horimono seem typical of Hizen to me. The horimono are centered on the shinogiji and thus affect the ji and the shinogiji in equal measure.
I don't like this type of horimono, but they do exist. And that brings me back to my saying, “there is nothing that does not exist.”

However, I find the composition of the horimono on the sword in this thread very strange. Even if it is pure speculation, the figurative horimono are probably much later than the bohi.

 

I would like to see the pictures of that sword, and you say it is between Shinogi Ji and Ji but it is not smack in the middle of the Ji right?

[Rayhan]

8 minutes ago, When Necessary said:

When we say that 'X' or 'Y' makes a blade bad, there are always exceptions. A missing boshi obviously makes a blade bad - but not if it's Heian jidai as judged by the NBTHK.

A missing boshi is a missing boshi and yes it makes it a bad sword but Heian Jidai makes it a historically significant item, so worthy of preservation for its historical context. 

[Nihonto student]

I don't want to add fuel to the fire, just a few considerations, always with a view to learning:

 

I see a lot of confidence in the Shinshinto dating, but honestly, as others have expressed, I have some reservations... it's not rare but not common to find a Shinshinto osuriage blade. 0.65 Kasane for a Shinshinto blade is very thin... why all these polishes?
Horimono atobori (I agree), but considering the kasane, this makes me think it was applied a long time later... early 1900s? I also agree with Alex that to spend the money on horimono, either the blade is worth it or the owner was particularly keen on it.

The Nagasa seems to be around 66cm (Correct?), so we're in the uchigatana range... something doesn't add up here either... so the blade was made in Shinshinto and then shortened to uchigatana? Perhaps a personal choice by the owner...

 

So, in my ignorance, I see three solutions:
1. The blade is older.

2. It's Shinshinto, and the blade has undergone an unconventional life/choice.

3. Shinshinto, and modifications have been made to make it appear older.

 

Offtopic

 

For what it's worth:

There are tons of informative posts on the forum where people can understand how to approach a purchase, from various perspectives (Some even recent posts).
Despite this, someone regularly posts about their newly purchased blade without having done any research. This should make us reflect on the pointlessness of setting up a roundtable of inquiries...there will always be people who do their research and those who don't, regardless of how many posts on the subject are made...for me, a purchase in itself is never a bad thing.

I'm one of those who bought their first blade without knowing anything (the blade wasn't even for me). Without that purchase, I wouldn't be here today, I would never have bought books, and I wouldn't sleep with Nagayama on my nightstand. The purchase opened my eyes to this world, I realized there was so much more to know, and it gave me the motivation to delve deeper.
This is to say that regardless of the advice, there will be those who want to delve deeper, those who don't, those who will have their own time to do so, and I think that from this perspective, the role of a forum like this is also to encourage people to continue along the path without making hasty judgments on hasty initial decisions. There's always time to redeem yourself

 

All the best

 

Giordy

 

[Alex A]

With what's available, Its hard to be specific.

 

Though would be surprised if it was Shinshinto.

[Rivkin]

7 hours ago, Ian B3HR2UH said:

Has anyone thought about the forging flaws in this blade , it is full of them. They seem to be kizu rather than rust pits. It is unsalvageable

Which makes me wonder if its atobori or born this way. On the positive side in a few area where light glances rather than coming from the top, I think there is bright itame jigane with ji nie. So yes, many issues, but I've seen plenty of such late horimono executed way worse and while there are probably many kizu, there is something to look at.

Why horimono was done? In late times like Meiji people did it a lot. Its not even trade with foreigners, foreigners judging by 1900s collections were more particular about the mounts. It was a garish-busy fab, and maybe there were a lot of jobless smiths who could at least do something.

There is an ambition in this blade, sugata is attractive and I think copies well earlier examples.

I would not judge this blade harshly, there is much to learn from it.

 

Regarding why shinshinto blades were shortened, in my experience its either to pass as koto (quite a few Satsuma and other blades as Soshu), or to fit military mounts/particular size preference for military mounts. Can this one be older? Yes, but then there are two options and both of those make me wonder.

[sabiji]

14 hours ago, Rayhan said:

I would like to see the pictures of that sword, and you say it is between Shinogi Ji and Ji but it is not smack in the middle of the Ji right?

I will be at the museum on Friday for an event. If the blade is on display, I would love to take a photo.

 

No, the horimono is not centered on the ji, it is centered on the shinogi.

[Alex A]

Maybe its my eyesight, dunno.

 

Though just looked over this Bo-hi again, in these not so good pictures im struggling to see anything that suggests the bo-hi was done by a cowboy, so to speak.

 

The geometry of the blade may have changed due to polish, the geometry of the bo-hi may have changed due to polishing, as in a polisher may have had to have polished out rust spots or whatever, we don't know. Ive had a blade turn up with rust spots in the bo-hi, so i guess its not that unusual. Though i do know polishers don't like over polishing in bo-hi.

 

As said, there are many good swords with questionable engraving.

 

If the owner didn't pay too much for the blade and a polisher can see it and if so polish it for a reasonable price, then its his business. We used to have a good polisher in the UK that would polish a blade for £22 an inch. Do the maths. If the polisher says the sword is past it, then that's how it is.

 

Some swords after polish do show openings and loose grain, especially certain schools during the Sengoku. Ironically, sold such a sword with some open grain to Guido, didn't bother me or him, the school at the time made real big heavy swords and open grain etc wasn't unusual.

 

Its best to air on the side of caution, as pointed out earlier in this thread, say what you see but let people make their own minds up. 

 

Think maybe folks past mistakes haunt them.

[Rayhan]

1 hour ago, Alex A said:

Maybe its my eyesight, dunno.

 

Though just looked over this Bo-hi again, in these not so good pictures and struggling to see anything that suggests the bo-hi was done by a cowboy, so to speak.

 

The geometry of the blade may have changed due to polish, the geometry of the bo-hi may have changed due to polishing, as in a polisher may have had to have polished out rust spots or whatever, we don't know. Ive had a blade turn up with rust spots in the bo-hi, so i guess its not that unusual. Though i do know polishers don't like over polishing in bo-hi.

 

As said, there are many good swords with questionable engraving.

 

If the owner didn't pay too much for the blade and a polisher can see it and if so polish it for a reasonable price, then its his business. We used to have a good polisher in the UK that would polish a blade for £22 an inch. Do the maths. If the polisher says the sword is past it, then that's how it is.

 

Some swords after polish do show openings and loose grain, especially certain schools during the Sengoku. Ironically, sold such a sword with some open grain to Guido, didn't bother me or him, the school at the time made real big heavy swords and open grain etc wasn't unusual.

 

Its best to air on the side of caution, as pointed out earlier in this thread, say what you see but let people make their own minds up. 

 

Think maybe folks past mistakes haunt them.

I think anyone who is brave enough to say the see Jigane and Hamon and potential after a polish on this sword should foot the bill for the polishing with full conviction and confidence, so @Alex A please pay for it so we can all marvel at the result? 

[Alex A]

Rayhan, you have not absorbed what i said and put one and one together and come up with ten.

 

We all collect on different levels, i can see where this is heading so will get out.

 

From the start, this was just another opportunity for you. Its getting really boring.

 

Its not your sword, or mine, its up to the owner.

 

Your the only person i know that can judge an out of polish blade from images, enough said.

[When Necessary]

1 minute ago, Alex A said:

Rayhan, you have not absorbed what i said and put one and one together and come up with ten.

 

We all collect on different levels, i can see where this is heading so will get out.

 

From the start, this was just another opportunity for you. Its getting really boring.

 

Its not your sword, or mine, its up to the owner.

 

Your the only person i know that can judge an out of polish blade from images, enough said.

Still taking a pop, is he Alex?

 

To be fair to the old boy, sometimes Rayban does dispense good advice.

His last comment to me was (and I quote) "Dude take a xxxxing laxative."

 

So, I followed his directive and put him on my 'to ignore' list.

Now indeed, it feels like I have been purged of a huge, rancid bowel movement 😊

[Rayhan]

8 hours ago, When Necessary said:

Still taking a pop, is he Alex?

 

To be fair to the old boy, sometimes Rayban does dispense good advice.

His last comment to me was (and I quote) "Dude take a xxxxing laxative."

 

So, I followed his directive and put him on my 'to ignore' list.

Now indeed, it feels like I have been purged of a huge, rancid bowel movement 😊

Hallelujah! Keep it this way Dee, thank you. 

[Rayhan]

16 hours ago, Alex A said:

Rayhan, you have not absorbed what i said and put one and one together and come up with ten.

 

We all collect on different levels, i can see where this is heading so will get out.

 

From the start, this was just another opportunity for you. Its getting really boring.

 

Its not your sword, or mine, its up to the owner.

 

Your the only person i know that can judge an out of polish blade from images, enough said.

Ok so I take it that is a firm NO on paying for the polish then. I am always surprised when experienced collectors cannot just say, yep mistake, sorry. 

 

Anyway let us have a discussion on the actual sword since the OP is asking for opinions and saying "Its not your sword, or mine, its up to the owner." is a blank statement as he is literally asking. 

I will explain what i see as my reasons for the non quality of the sword and Bohi vs what you see, I would like to know what you see that makes this viable. 

 

When we look at the 48th Juyo Oshigata that Markus gave us permission to post here in the NMB we have many wonderful examples of how Bohi should be positioned and cut. In most instances (there are a few 2-3 maybe, that are not good representations of Bohi even in the 48th Juyo.) But, in most cases you see the Bohi cut uniformly hugging the Shinogi Ji and at the Kissaki side ending uniformly and symmetrically. There is no downward dipping. At the end of the Bohi (Nakago side) you see it gracefully leave the blades base and allows for the whole sugata to be complimented. 

 

On this sword here you will see that at the Kissaki side the ends of the Bohi are not symmetrical and they are not uniform in positioning, they sit above the Shinogi line and at the end they dip downward. These errors happen when Bohi are not cut well, cut by less trained artisan and done on cold hard steel much later in the swords life. There are areas in the Bohi that are good, but most of it shows divots and undulations that should not be there. The end of the Bohi is not leaving the sword in a uniform, elegant fashion, on one side you will see that there is a crack in the nakago at the end where is it was suriage, but the Bohi looks to unaffected by this Suriage leading me to believe it was added later. On the Ura side the end of the Bohi end is crudely cut into the sword and on the Omote it is well above the Suriage line so this must have been added crudely after. 

 

Another factor is the Kasane. You have asked for the Nagasa kasane and seen it is 0.65CM and omitted the Nakago kasane which looks considerably thicker (unless it is a camera trick?). If the nakago kasane is thicker compared to the Nagasa we can safely say that the sword has been polished way down to be something it is not. It also indicates that because the Bohi has not been affected in this process of change that it was added later and escaped most of the modifications. If the Nakago kasane ends up being considerable then the Shin Shinto theory will be more than plausible. I still think it is mid Edo. 

 

 

"As said, there are many good swords with questionable engraving." The engraving is part of the sword so then a bad engraving makes a bad sword, the two are not exclusive, this a singular object.

 

"Think maybe folks past mistakes haunt them." Yep, I think mistakes like this sword should haunt all of us and I am sorry that @Eric187 has been another victim of a shitty dealer, there are good dealers out there who are not collectors or charlatans. 

[Alex A]

Why would i pay to have someone else's sword polished, such a stupid statement! 

 

This is nonsense, you are comparing this sword with Juyo swords? Ive had enough of your elitist **** now Rayhan, this is all ridiculous, troll like egotistical BS

 

As said a number of times now, IM NOT JUDGING AN OUT OF POLISH BLADE from PICTURES and for God knows how many times said it needs to be seen in hand to confirm whether it deserves a polish or not. 

 

I said that because like a few others, think it deserves a bit more scrutiny than what we can give it here. 

 

And something you don't know, i presume. I know how much Eric paid for this sword, very little in fact and "IF" a polisher says its worth restoring and "IF" he can get it done for a reasonable price then i actually feel he could make a profit when its time to sell. Though many "IFS"!!!. At the price he paid most here would have bought it. Sure if he did NOTHING he could make a profit.

 

Folks are always interested in horimono, even if not executed to an high standard. For many they add interest though its not for everyone.

 

Nakago could be re-patinated, Shirasaya repaired/cleaned up.

 

Hes not a child, so stop treating him like one.

 

Now ive had enough of dealing with your over inflated ego to last me a lifetime, you need to get your head out of the clouds. Feels like an exercise in "blowing ones own trumpet", so to speak.

 

As said, really impressed at how you judge out of polished blades from poor images, amazing.

 

The END.

 

 

 

 

[Rayhan]

@Alex A So Alex I am also not one of your children so shouting at me, saying The END and go to your corner is not really going to work. What we should do is look at the nonsense you're sharing:

 

"I said that because like a few others, think it deserves a bit more scrutiny than what we can give it here. 

 

And something you don't know, i presume. I know how much Eric paid for this sword, very little in fact and "IF" a polisher says its worth restoring and "IF" he can get it done for a reasonable price then i actually feel he could make a profit when its time to sell. Though many "IFS"!!!. At the price he paid most here would have bought it. Sure if he did NOTHING he could make a profit."

 

@Eric187 Let me be clear that no matter what you paid for this sword it was a waste of every penny. If you value money and every minute it takes to make it then no matter what the price was, realise it was flushed down a drain and observe that feeling and ask yourself, knowing that it is not really a sword anymore would you really subject another collector, friend or enthusiast with this same feeling and tragedy? It's like conning someone. Alex is actively encouraging you to do just that and not just that he wants you to spend money in the sword to get to that point first. 

 

- "Nakago could be re-patinated, Shirasaya repaired/cleaned up"

- "polisher says its worth restoring"

 

Let us look at polishing, this will cost money, re-patination of the Nakago will cost money, Shirasaya will cost money, shipping, etc.

 

So let us also look at the next statement:

 

"Folks are always interested in horimono, even if not executed to an high standard. For many they add interest though its not for everyone."

 

Yeah no, no, no, lol, no. Just a select few people maybe. @Eric187 let me tell you what your budget polisher will do, they will polish your sword and then:

 

 

In these areas when polished the kizu will open up further

 

Here the kizu will open but we can also see that the edge is damaged and will also need to be polished down to restore alignment

 

 

Here we can see the edge is again in need of re-alignment. The orange is a line of masame hada that has opened up and will open further in polishing. Now the Ryu, the Ryu is in the Ji and when polished this will wear down the Horimono and damage it, I do not see why that would make it more acceptable? The position of the Horimono means it will meet with stone and there is no avoiding that. 

 

 

 

 

Edge alignment again

 

 

As soon as this areas are polished they will open up pitting and it is in the Hamon

 

 

There is pitting in the Hamon here

 

This is a lot of work for a profit from an unsuspecting new owner. 

 

"This is nonsense, you are comparing this sword with Juyo swords" Well yes, I am using Juyo Oshigata as a benchmark why would I use a crappy example? I use Juyo Oshigata for most comparisons (personal though). 

[Alex A]

You just confirm my thoughts.

 

I dont see anything you highlight where i can say yay or nay as to whether it can be polished

 

For two reasons, im looking at images and im not a polisher with it in hand.

 

As said previously, you could try doing a search. Seen one or two swords over the years that look unsalvageable but ended up polished ok.

 

Its an antique and as much as you think its junk, i always look at them with some respect and wonder what is best for the sword, that's not my decision here.

 

You do realise some folks would happily own the sword, as is.

 

Now i really am done with this thread.

 

Wish Eric the best with with it.

 

 

[Jussi Ekholm]

I don't think Rayhan is saying anything that he couldn't reasonably explain where he stands for with good explanations. I wouldn't personally invest money on this sword. In my opinion the vast majority of Japanese swords can be polished, however it is another thing if it is economically reasonable at all to get them polished. 

 

Unfortunately I don't know the correct terminology for such horimono placement if there is a specific term. I do think I have seen it done few times, as if there is bo-hi present there is really no other space for carving. Unfortunately I have too many references and I cannot easily find them as I don't remember them well.

 

Here is one historically important naginata-naoshi attributed as work of Yoshioka Ichimonji Sukemitsu, it is signed and dated. However I cannot personally stand the horimono...

https://web.archive.org/web/20220112040404/https:/www.aoijapan.com/wakizashi-ichi-bishu-yoshioka-jyu-saecut-after-that/

 

I was actually thinking/dreaming about buying this one when it was 1,500,000 yen. It has passed through 4 dealers and was 3,500,000 yen at highest asking price I've seen, and latest one was the 2,200,000 yen it was listed at Aoi. It is historically super important item but for my personal collection I would rather have unimportant item that I personally love.

 

Here is a Jūyō sword that I personally dislike because of the carving. It is a signed tachi by Bizen Nagamitsu and most likely a good sword but I cannot get myself to like the sword.

https://web.archive.org/web/20230203101526/https://www.samurai-nippon.net/SHOP/V-1979.html

 

This one has also passed through at least 4 different dealers with fluctuation in price, latest one being 11,000,000 yen.

 

 

[Rayhan]

6 minutes ago, Jussi Ekholm said:

I don't think Rayhan is saying anything that he couldn't reasonably explain where he stands for with good explanations. I wouldn't personally invest money on this sword. In my opinion the vast majority of Japanese swords can be polished, however it is another thing if it is economically reasonable at all to get them polished. 

 

Unfortunately I don't know the correct terminology for such horimono placement if there is a specific term. I do think I have seen it done few times, as if there is bo-hi present there is really no other space for carving. Unfortunately I have too many references and I cannot easily find them as I don't remember them well.

 

Here is one historically important naginata-naoshi attributed as work of Yoshioka Ichimonji Sukemitsu, it is signed and dated. However I cannot personally stand the horimono...

https://web.archive.org/web/20220112040404/https:/www.aoijapan.com/wakizashi-ichi-bishu-yoshioka-jyu-saecut-after-that/

 

I was actually thinking/dreaming about buying this one when it was 1,500,000 yen. It has passed through 4 dealers and was 3,500,000 yen at highest asking price I've seen, and latest one was the 2,200,000 yen it was listed at Aoi. It is historically super important item but for my personal collection I would rather have unimportant item that I personally love.

 

Here is a Jūyō sword that I personally dislike because of the carving. It is a signed tachi by Bizen Nagamitsu and most likely a good sword but I cannot get myself to like the sword.

https://web.archive.org/web/20230203101526/https://www.samurai-nippon.net/SHOP/V-1979.html

 

This one has also passed through at least 4 different dealers with fluctuation in price, latest one being 11,000,000 yen.

 

 

With regards to the Ichimonji I have seen that one and it is not nice to look at personally, it just feels wrong. 

 

The Nagamitsu, yes the Horimono flows into the Ji but at least it is lower down and not mid sword. The good thing is it is a good example of what polished down Horimono looks like. 

[Rayhan]

1 hour ago, When Necessary said:

I can only see one side of this conversation now Alex, but I can very easily envisage the rest.

Don't bother engaging with the nepo baby - it just tries to get a rise out of everybody and it's really not worth your time or effort.
 

I can only imagine what poor Eric makes of all this. 😳 He came on here asking for advice and instead - thanks to the usual suspect - it's turned into a confusing pissing match. (I've played my part as well so I apologise to the poor guy.)

Yeah ok, attacking peoples assumed backgrounds seems to be the only way you get around and it has nothing to do with Nihonto, I have no idea why some people are on here. I would love to know where you think you know me from. If only I could express my opinion of your background freely but that would cause quite a stir I'm sure. 

[Brano]

I would assume we are still on a forum about nihonto and related matters

 

It would be beneficial if you all kindly stopped your personal invectives against each other and started behaving like self-sufficient adults

Who do you think is curious about that?

 

It is obvious that some kind of "group" has formed here that hates anything another individual says, regardless of what it is

 

Stop acting like kindergarten kids!!!

[Rawa]

21 minutes ago, Brano said:

I would assume we are still on a forum about nihonto and related matters

 

It would be beneficial if you all kindly stopped your personal invectives against each other and started behaving like self-sufficient adults

Who do you think is curious about that?

 

It is obvious that some kind of "group" has formed here that hates anything another individual says, regardless of what it is

 

Stop acting like kindergarten kids!!!

Maybe its best not to participate in this activity?

[Hokke]

3 hours ago, Brano said:

 

Who do you think is curious about that?

I am going to assume you were referencing my comment even though you didn’t quote them. I also find it curious you can apply your reasoning to some posts and not others, yes, it’s seems groups HAVE formed, that’s unfortunate. 

Your boy wrote ”Let me be clear that no matter what you paid for this sword it was a waste of every penny. If you value money and every minute it takes to make it then no matter what the price was, realise it was flushed down a drain and observe that feeling and ask yourself, knowing that it is not really a sword anymore would you really subject another collector, friend or enthusiast with this same feeling and tragedy? It's like conning someone.”

 

First this highlights a lie told in a previous post. First, your boy told the owner of this blade if he only paid a couple hundred bucks, it was fine. Somehow that later transitioned to a “waste of every penny”.

 

Telling people how to spend their money and assuming their financial values if far from focusing on nihonto, it’s financial advice. Compounding this by telling someone they “flushed money down the drain” and then going on to say if they sell this blade in the future they are participating in a CON is far from focusing on nihonto. Not only that, it lacks any professionalism and tact, which indicates low character. Its my understanding that this forum is looking to identify ways to increase gold membership. Telling people a purchase was a “waste of every penny” and “flushed it down the drain”…..is not the way to do it IMO. 
 

Interesting you seemed to have missed those points……

[Kantaro]

Hmm is it Sanskrit? (संस्कृतम्)

[Matsunoki]

Most of us on the Forum happily accept that people derive great enjoyment from collecting a wide variety of Japanese swords for an equally wide variety of reasons and at hugely different price points. 

We adopt a “live and let live” attitude without judgement, accepting that people buy things that maybe we would not but we calmly accept that they collect in a different way with different objectives.

 

One person in several of these recent topics/exchanges seems not to accept that philosophy and prefers to tell us all what we should do and what we should spend our money on as well as resorting to combative insults and assumptions when a contrary view is put forward.

 

Is it any wonder that this attitude and behaviour is seen as inflammatory and causes a reaction amongst those of us that see it as damaging this Forum?

Sadly such behaviour is also likely to immediately deter anyone who is considering  entering this hobby.

 

…..and just my opinion but this is not a “bad sword”.  It would still behead you with ease which is its primary function.

It is a sword that was once made for a purpose at whatever the budget was. It is now obviously somewhat tired and damaged but it is still interesting and it is still capable of teaching us something.

……and a word about bo-hi…..their geometry can be heavily distorted by inappropriate or poor quality polishing thus creating the impression that they were badly cut. That may be the case here, who knows? We haven’t got the sword in our hands.

and finally Rayhan….facts…

1. I am not a sword dealer and never have been,

2. I am not an expert and have never professed to be one.

 

 

 

[When Necessary]

I see that my last post referring to the nepo baby has been selectively deleted. This is unfortunate as it also contained an apology from me to the OP for my own part in derailing his perfectly reasonable enquiry about a very interesting sword - whatever it's condition. Therefore, I must apologise to @Eric187 once again.
 

As stated, I can only see half the conversation now but I'm confident that no such apology has been forthcoming from the self aggrandising egotist who insists on judging absolutely everything by Juyo standards - which even the NBTHK does not do when looking at blades submitted to the lower rankings of Hozon and Tokubetsu Hozon. One has only to look at his early threads which absolutely crow to the heavens of his Juyo level successes to see how he now looks down upon anything - however notable in its own, humble, merits - which does not meet this ludicrously lofty standard. 
He once created another, deliberately provocative thread entitled "What is the definition of and(sic) Elitist collector?" - to answer his own question, he need only look in the mirror.