Kai Gunto: genuine or fake?

[Nazar]

Hi all. I need your advice. on  the kai-gunto. 

 

This kai-gunto popped up on a local internet auction. I have my concerns about its genuinity but my expertise in this sphere is still far from sufficient. Also the same seller has another gunto with a 5 digit number on habaki which (from what I learned) is a clear giveaway of fake. So maybe you could help me identify if this sword is genuine or not. Unfortunately, the photos I attached to this message are the only ones available at the moment. I requested photos of tang from the seller but didn't get them yet.

 

Kind regards,

Nazar

[Bruce Pennington]

Hi Nazar,

Other than the light color ito, it looks legit to me, and even the ito looks properly wrapped, so maybe custom job?  Would help a lot to see the nakago (tang).

[Kiipu]

Handle looks to have been soaked in bleach.

[Brian]

Only things that made me pause are the fact that the blade looks buffed, and the habaki back is too close to the blade. Level with the machi. But that could be from impact.
Nakago will tell the full story.

[Ian B3HR2UH]

I would be very suspicious of this piece . As Brian says the habaki is way off and a few other bits raise red flags for me . These coupled with the fact that the other piece the seller has is a Chinese  fake leads me to say don't go near it unless you see photos of the nakago

[Nazar]

Thank you for your inputs!

 

And here goes nakago...

[Navy]

The fittings seem to be correct kai gunto parts, but all the gold finish is gone, among the ito and same colors. As suggested by Kiipu it looks like they have been treated with some chemical stuff.

Do you have a pic of the nakago without habaki, in the area of machi?

[Kiipu]

Ran across this naval handle that has the same white color in one set of pictures and then a brown color in another set of pictures.  I wonder if this could be this case with this sword?

Shodai Kawashima Tadayoshi Gendaito Hozon - Kai Gunto for review

[Nazar]

That's my belief too that patina on brass elements is artificial. To my noob eye all things looked correct but my red flag was patina. It's too uniform on all elements to be natural.

I think these are the only photos I could get.Seller had troubles removing tsuka and I doubt if he could remove habaki.

[Nazar]

I think I found something that looks like a stamp on a tang.

[Rawa]

looks like: 

[Ian B3HR2UH]

I have the attached Kai gunto and the ito on it is completely original so such pieces do exist . However such light binding is highly unusual and with the other red flags it should add up to a warning to avoid the sword . The kabuto gane on the originals generally are made of one metal to which the copper flower parts are soldered ( ? ) on . You can see this on the photo of my piece . The one you are being offered seems to be just the one metal which is I think a bit odd . I wait for others to howl me down on this and show me their pieces where just the one metal is used for the kabuto gane

[PNSSHOGUN]

The Ito on the sword in question looks to have been re-wrapped after the war.

[Rawa]

Maybe only sword is replica. Looks like it. Have you guys any nakago with similar oxidation?

[Nazar]

Got some additional photos

[Nazar]

[Navy]

I see traces of black color on same, that is of good quality with big nodules, and to me the fittings are ok, just with the gilding completely gone. Not a good thing the seller can't remove the habaki, stated that it looks odd, especially on the mune area. Also, the rust (fresh) on nakago is not consistent with the state of the nagasa, which actually seems buffed. My rookie bet is: genuine sword, "restored" in a bad way.

[Thekirsh]

An amateur restoration might have included  chrome plating the blade which would also account for the heat affected nakago

[Rawa]

But why there are no markings on nakago? Stamp only gunto?

[Bruce Pennington]

I can see hamon on this photo, so not chrome.  A simple buffer on a cordless drill will make a shine like this.

 

I like it.  Unique.  Got personality.

[Nazar]

So about this seller. The local internet auction forbids private messaging between sellers and buyers. After another request for photos in the comments they just dropped their address and invited me to visit them. I googled the address. Turned out to be a small antique shop in Kyiv. Their speciality seems to be far from swords. The sword was given to them for sale by the owner, so they are just trying to get their percentages on sale. I called them and asked them to send me photos (which I posted here today). They also informed me that they are scared to dismantle swords because they have no such experience and are frightened to break something in the process.I lived in Kyiv before the war, but now my duty keeps me far from home. Or else I could look at this sword in person. I believe I could negotiate it for around 1700 USD.

[Nazar]

Thank you Bruce!  While looking for information on kai-gunto I have read a lot of your posts. Same while I was researching Navy dirks. Since my appearance here on forum it so happened that I was carried away by Japanese Navy blades. So I think maybe I have to give this sword a try.

[Navy]

 Personally, given the overall condition and the lack of mei, for that price I would pass on it.