Opinions on Floral motif Tsuba.

GoldenDrachen · March 15, 2023

Hello everyone!

As a novice, I am not familiar with the signatures, schools, manufacturing periods (yet) but trying.

Trying to train my eye, at least, to distinguish modern produce from the old ones.

I bought this tsuba, and this is what I thought about it.

Popular floral ornament, peonies, I guess. Craftsmanship, not bad at all. It was mounted. Since it is very ornate or decorative - Edo period?

I can't see any fire scale, just some rust, but I believe could be cleaned. (please tell me what I did get right and wrong, any input ALWAYS appreciated)

I paid 98€ for it

Subject's photos in attachment

Regards

Vitaly

vajo · March 15, 2023

Vitaly to see what it is you need to make bigger better pictures.

98 EUR - what should go wrong? Its a normal dinner with family.

GoldenDrachen · March 15, 2023

2 hours ago, vajo said:

Vitaly to see what it is you need to make bigger better pictures.

98 EUR - what should go wrong? Its a normal dinner with family.

Hi Chris. I just bought it. I only have pics from auc discription. Will this help?

vajo · March 15, 2023

Looks good for me Vitaly. :thumbsup:

Its made with gold and silver foil. Not paint.

Later edo tsuba.

Spartancrest · March 16, 2023

9 hours ago, GoldenDrachen said:

Popular floral ornament, peonies,

Yes, it is I would say late Edo and as Chris has shown, you have got it at a good price, just a gentle clean of the rust and it will look great.

The pattern is fairly common and because of that there will be "great pieces" and "poor pieces". Have a look at this one in the Museum of Fine Arts Boston - https://collections.mfa.org/objects/11725 I am pretty sure they have their image upside down but it is the same pattern and the background texture certainly adds to its quality and it might be the very original prototype of the design? They date their example to the 18th century [tentatively]

I have a couple of pages with the same pattern in one of my books - also you might like to give Jesse Miller Infinite_Wisdumb a personal message he has an interest in insects on tosogu and I believe he has one [bottom left of spread].

Spartancrest · March 16, 2023

9 hours ago, GoldenDrachen said:

Trying to train my eye, at least, to distinguish modern produce from the old ones.

Well Vitaly your eye is good so far - you could have gone for this "pretty coloured" FAKE and been very disappointed.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/374196175798 I have to laugh at the description "Japanese Tradition TSUBA"
Same sort of money but worlds away in quality.

Japanese Tradition TSUBA Katana Sword guard Butterfly and Flower FT-6 From Japan - Picture 2 of 5

You new members have a great advantage over us old guys - we didn't have the resources to study this field when we began our journey - the internet was still something to do with fishing and the Web was something spiders lived in when we started out! :rotfl:

GoldenDrachen · March 16, 2023

Firstly, thank you so much, guys!

Always lots of information, interesting and valuable.. I appreciate that a lot!

For instance, now I clearly understand the concept of some initial design being used by various craftsmen in their pieces. Absolutely obvious that level of skills is quite different etc.

Very cool. I like that.

9 hours ago, Spartancrest said:

You new members have a great advantage over us old guys - we didn't have the resources to study this field when we began our journey - the internet was still something to do with fishing and the Web was something spiders lived in when we started out

Yes and no. As I can see, most of the literature in this field was firstly published during the period 1900 - 1960- ish. But still it had to be dug out (libraries, antique bookshops)

For new collectors, the chances of discovering something new it this field getting slimmer. Practically everything is already studied, documented etc. The older generation of collectors have enjoyed better prices and virtual absence of fakes.

Personally for me, it is a privilege to have a chance to learn from "older" collectors and I will be eternally grateful to all you good people for sharing your knowledge and experience.

GoldenDrachen · March 16, 2023

10 hours ago, Spartancrest said:

in one of my books

Could you elaborate? I am very interested.

Spartancrest · March 16, 2023

Vitaly I have compiled something in the order of 67 books all pretty much dealing in tsuba. Most of that number are museum collections and of those 60% are not cleared of copyright conditions so not available for open publication and I fall back on the red disclaimer!

The book with those Peony/butterfly images is still a work in progress based on collections of "utsushi" or basically many examples of the same design but executed in their own unique finish. For instance I have been collecting "Rain Dragons" - all the same basic designs but 102 [so far] unique takes on it.

However I do have something like ten books on the general market as "PRINT ON DEMAND" this is a little limiting as POD tend to be more expensive to print and in order to make them economic the print quality tends to suffer - it is a balancing act between producing a photo quality print run that no one can afford or an "economy" print run that is low cost and available to more people but not as good quality as compared to general published books put out by major book houses.

I have just listed another one in the last few days "The Walters Art Museum Collection of Tsuba" it is over 800 pages so it had to be made as a two volume edition.

Much along the lines of "Public Domain Tsuba in the Metropolitan Museum of Art Vol.1 & Vol.2 and "Tsuba in the Cleveland Museum of Art" - the Walters books are a catalogue of the museum's collection but this time with extra background history of the design or other relevant images such as Woodblock prints etc and for those items on mounted sets I have included other matching fittings where space has allowed. There are two of my books available from the NMB download section "The Etiquette of Seppuku: by Freeman-Mitford" A rework of an out of print section within a much larger volume. Also "Metropolitain Museum Tsuba Sold by Christie's" By Spartancrest [me ] The down load section is a great resource you should take advantage of.

If I could say something, if you are looking at buying any books of mine and indeed other members of the NMB like Grev Cooke and Stephen King it will pay you to contact them to find the best prices, as there is a lot of price gouging by the middlemen sellers and each author can generally find you a cheaper option.

Brian · March 16, 2023

This forum software has a awesome electronic sales feature that I can activate at some point. Allows for proper sales of electronic downloads professionally.
If there is interest, I can look at opening the store with downloads such as your books, Grev's, Markus' books etc for a small commission.
Maybe time to look at something like that. Hmmm

rematron · March 16, 2023

I love that idea Brian. Free information is great and there's a lot of it here but I also enjoy paying for the hard research of others as to not take it for granted. I'm also a fan of convenience and being able to pay and download directly from this forum would definitely be something I would take advantage of.

1kinko · March 16, 2023

Not to take away from the work Dale is publishing, but Lethal Elegance is currently on sale on Amazon for $11 plus change. The high resolution photos make a huge difference in understanding the workmanship.

zanilu · March 16, 2023

5 hours ago, Brian said:

This forum software has a awesome electronic sales feature that I can activate at some point. Allows for proper sales of electronic downloads professionally.
If there is interest, I can look at opening the store with downloads such as your books, Grev's, Markus' books etc for a small commission.
Maybe time to look at something like that. Hmmm

It sounds like a good idea! I second it! Due to space issues I always opt for electronic versione if available...

Regards

Luca

Spartancrest · March 16, 2023

4 hours ago, 1kinko said:

Lethal Elegance is currently on sale on Amazon for $11 plus change.

There is not a person on this forum who should not get a copy of this book - fantastic value.

One bonus I got from ordering a copy last year at a slightly higher price was the packer who sent me mine didn't notice two were stuck together! Bonus!