Sashikomi V Hadori An old thread for a good read.

[Chishiki]

An old thread from almost 10 years ago...time flies.   The subject just came up in another thread.  I'll repost it just so newer members can enjoy the read.  Mark

[george trotter]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for finding that old thread....it sure illustrates that we have had this hadori/sashikomi discussion before...and quite rightly so. Good to see that we were polite to each other  then and are (mostly) still polite.

I note that some members who I have deep respect for disagreed with my position on preferring sashikomi then and am sure they still do. This is our common right and in no way affects my respect for their knowledge and preferences.

Enjoy the discussion.

Regards...

[Ken-Hawaii]

On 2/18/2023 at 3:47 AM, george trotter said:

note that some members who I have deep respect for disagreed with my position on preferring sashikomi then and am sure they still do.

I think it pretty much depends on the blade, George. Polishing isn't a "one size fits all."

[drbvac]

Well as we said Hadori is certainly more flashy but when having a blade "restored" it should in my mind try and reflect what the original polish would have been and not something with the potential to overstress some areas of the hamon. The toshigi is the one who should decide what would best bring out the best qualities of the blade. Matter of personal preference what one likes I suppose but shouldn't  put lipstick on a pig either.

[Franco]

Hint, when looking at a hadori finished sword, if one's eye and or the surface of the sword are lined up in a direct line with/from the light source to the eye, you might as well be looking at a pig with lipstick. 

 

Regards,

 

Ask me no more questions, and I'll tell you no more lies. 

 

 

[Baba Yaga]

It's been an interesting thread. On the light side, Hadori is a commercialized polish for the masses. What the masses want, the masses shall receive. I would ponder, the Purist- Shinsa of yesteryear would scowl at the idea of Hadori.  Nowadays this has become common practice with the mid and lower class swords.   

[rematron]

Definitely an interesting thread and I've learned a lot from it.  There are many different ways to collect nihonto.  Some people like koto while other people like shinto or newer and some people like both and it's pretty much left at that without one person trying to convince the other person of their rationale.  Another example is some people collect iron tosogu while others only collect kinko and other people collect both or by school and some people want all the schools. The threads on these subjects are all relatively tame even when there's a disagreement over provenance, etc. and they rarely get as heated as this thread got.  A history student could write a doctorate thesis on the varying aspects of nihonto polish and how it evolved historically, false information versus real information, the general perceptions, misconceptions and attitudes towards it.  The subject approaches such a degree of passion that it is reminiscent of politics. 

[Stephen]

Choosing this link for convenience maybe you can search any other Japanese seller and see if they have any swords for sale in sashikomi polish. Kesho its the norm nowadays.

 

https://www.aoijapan.com/

 

Sorry i misread earlier in this fray.

Forgive my rash reply. 

 

 

[Ooitame]

I agree one size does not fit all. To each their own. I prefer a trained togishi opinion as they know more about the correct choice. I had a gunto in original polish, and asked the polishers opinion and options and why he would suggest one over the other. An interesting conversation, I agreed with the polishers opinion and explanation. Sashikomi was picked and the outcome was fantastic.

[Franco]

10 hours ago, Baba Yaga said:

Hadori is a commercialized polish for the masses.

 

So, Baba, when Tanobe san recommends a polisher, and that polisher performs a hadori polish, and then that sword passes juyo shinsa, the entire exercise was done for the benefit of the masses, is that right?

 

 

10 hours ago, Baba Yaga said:

I would ponder, the Purist- Shinsa of yesteryear would scowl at the idea of Hadori. 

 

And exactly who are these purists? 

 

In the past I have seen swords polished by NLT Ono Kokei, Kajiwara, Yoshikawa, and very likely Hon'ami Koson, and they were all done in hadori. Are you suggesting that these polishers were not nihonto purists and didn't understand what it is that they were doing? Or that perhaps they were catering to the masses?

[Baba Yaga]

50 minutes ago, Franco D said:

 

So, Baba, when Tanobe san recommends a polisher, and that polisher performs a hadori polish, and then that sword passes juyo shinsa, the entire exercise was done for the benefit of the masses, is that right?

 

 

 

And exactly who are these purists? 

 

In the past I have owned swords polished by NLT Ono Kokei, Kajiwara, Yoshikawa, and very likely Hon'ami Koson, and they were all done in hadori. Are you suggesting that these polishers were not nihonto purists and didn't understand what it is that they were doing? Or that perhaps they were catering to the masses?

 

I don't understand the many generalities. 30-40 years ago, or recently? What sword became Juyo? Was the hadori pronounced camouflaging the blade? I  think we're talking Apples and Oranges.  One will find exceptions in anything especially Nihonto.     

[Franco]

4 minutes ago, Baba Yaga said:

One will find exceptions in anything especially Nihonto.     

 

 

Yeah, but Baba, you made blanket statements when that is not the actual reality. Judge each sword, judge each polish, on their own merits. Try to get past likes and dislikes for just for the sake of each.

 

Regards,

[drbvac]

IT is like any other art form that changes with time - I personally hate "modern art" that looks like a three year old threw paint at a canvas but - some love it. To each his own and it is the artists decision as to what he puts on the paper. Collect what you like for reasons that only you may know and as with anything involving people to each his own. Trying to understand what one person likes vs another is a mugs game and can get you in more trouble than it is worth. Politics and religion come to mind 

[Baba Yaga]

18 hours ago, Franco D said:

 

 

 

18 hours ago, Franco D said:

 

 

Yeah, but Baba, you made blanket statements when that is not the actual reality. Judge each sword, judge each polish, on their own merits. Try to get past likes and dislikes for just for the sake of each.

 

Regards,

 

Despite all my knowledge, I'm just a rat in a cage.