Looking to purchase. Just want a second opinion.

[Winchester]

Friends, I wish I knew more and am being hard on myself. I am reading a lot and very thankful for the shared knowledge here.

 

I have a friend who I really trust and respect, who is offering to sell me a nihonto.

 

This is the maker: https://nihontoclub.com/smiths/IYE381

 

It has "Kitae" or ware, which I will post in a picture. Otherwise in good condition. What would be a ballpark or approximate price? It is a thick blade, papers, later end of 1400's, signed by a fairly well known person.

[Winchester]

Additional photos with the area of concern, all else is in order.

 

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Out of respect to my friend, I'd like to give him an answer as soon as possible.

[Winchester]

Would it make sense to pursue higher status to get the TH for about $500.00 USD?

[Geraint]

Dear Brian.

 

You are asking a question that is impossible to answer.  You say that it is by a certain maker and ask if it would be worth upgrading the status;  it already has papers.  So far so good.  If the flaws in the shinogi ji, which by the way would be described as kitae ware, or forging flaws, are what you are asking about then welcome to the world of Koto, these are not serious. 

 

However you don't even tell us if this is a katana or wakizashi.  I assume that it is a katana.  So, you have a katana with papers by a known maker which is suriage but still retains it's mei, it seems to be in good polish and we can assume shirasaya but what about koshirae?

 

It is being offered by a friend who you, 'really trust and respect', so what is the question?  You trust the seller, you can afford it, (I hope!) and presumably you like it.  So buy it.  

 

A lot of people will tell you that you can get a better deal but at the end of the day regard this a s a hobby which is going to cost you.  The rewards in terms of satisfaction and delight are tremendous, they are worth the money.  You will study this and learn a lot about swords from owning it, it will start to create your mental map of the history of the sword and Japan.  What's not to like?

 

Will you be able to sell it and make your money back?  Who knows?  Do you really care about that?  In effect you are paying to rent a piece of history and high craft, if not art.  It will bring you a measure of joy if it can be owned without too much financial pressure.

 

Let us know what you decide.

 

All the best.

 

  

[Winchester]

^^^^^Thanks for the advice. I am wondering if this defect is repairable.....no question on seller or authenticity....just trying to learn.

 

To be clear, this item and others are not for sale...just to enjoy. 

[ChrisW]

Am I seeing shintetsu or just seeing things?

[MHC]

The kitae ware is not something that you should consider repairing, it is just an artifact of that era of sword making, and part of the "character" of this particular blade.

 

Although it is probably just my eyes playing tricks on me, but I think I can see what appears to be a partial Mei that has been obscured, both directly above and below the crisply chiseled Mei. The Oshigata is picking up what I think I see as well.

Also a very, very distinct straight line perpendicular to the blade axis, directly above the bottom Nakago-ana. Could be a wear mark from a previous Habaki, when the sword was longer, but the mark is in a very strange location for that possibility, so it could be something else altogether.....

 

What type of PAPER, does the blade have?

 

Mark

[Geraint]

Dear Mark.  

Quote

Although it is probably just my eyes playing tricks on me, but I think I can see what appears to be a partial Mei that has been obscured, both directly above and below the crisply chiseled Mei.

  No it's not your eyes, I think the province kanji in the shu form has been erased through suriage.

 

All the best.

[BIG]

Hi Brian, is your sword the same sword shown in your link, lost double Hi to many polishes?

BEST

[Winchester]

Photos are of actual sword I am considering purchase on. 

[Winchester]

Geraint and everyone else, thanks for your comments/feedback. I am buying it. 

[MHC]

Brian,

 

You never did tell us what "papers" the sword has???

 

Mark

[NewB]

NBTHK Kicho papers.

 

 

John

[MHC]

Hello Brian,

 

I didn't want to air my apparent ignorance to the whole group, so I tried to send you a PM, but your membership status does not allowed for messaging.

 

So here goes nothing.......

 

I've been learning a lot over the past few years, and I'm just now starting to compare Mei's on swords with existing confirmed examples, to see if I can try to learn. Mainly to see if I can spot Gimei from authentic.

 

Concerning the Katana that you noted above, you had posted pictures of the Nakago, and a link to the signature of the purported sword smith.

Here is where I get confused, in that the Mei signature on the link, does not even remotely come close to the Mei on the sword.

 

I'm assuming that I simply don't know what I'm looking at, so could you please shed some light on this matter for me.

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

Mark

[Jussi Ekholm]

The signature of the sword is in my opinion (加州) 藤原家次作 - (Kashū) Fujiwara Ietsugu saku. I put the first portion in brackets as it is very faded (possibly made on purpose).

 

You can see similar NBTHK authenticated mei here: https://www.juwelier-strebel.de/asienkunst/Japan/691w-tanto

 

Unfortunately I have packed all my books for upcoming move so I cannot check my references.

[MHC]

See there you go, I was reading the Mei absolutely incorrectly.

 

I errantly was assuming the name was first, when in fact the name is last......sheeez rookies!

 

I need better/more books, that's the bottom line. Sure wish I could see more Mei's in person, pictures make it tougher to learn.

 

However, seeing blades in person now that I'm in Thailand, it damn near impossible.

 

Mark

[Sunny]

On 9/10/2021 at 7:20 AM, BIG said:

Hi Brian, is your sword the same sword shown in your link, lost double Hi to many polishes?

BEST

Good eye...great observation

[Geraint]

Well I'm puzzled.  The only link I see is to the Nihonto club one which takes you to a sword that is quite different to the example in the original post.  The example in the link has a different nakago, different mei and clearly has hi.  It also has papers in the form that it is in now.  How could that ever be the same sword?

 

All the best.

[FZ1]

Hi Geraint,

 

I think the OP included the Nihonto club link just to identify (and provide some info on) the smith.  I don't think the "known examples" sword in that maker's entry is relevant to the sword under discussion.  (Well that's what I assumed anyway)

 

Cheers,

 

Jon

 

[Winchester]

FZ1, you are correct. It was just for reference. Sorry for any confusion.

 

Thanks, Jussi, and everyone else. I appreciate it.

 

[NewB]

How many polishes would take to remove the HI grooves off?  🤔🤦‍♂️🤣🥳

 

 

John

[Gakusee]

Can we pause here for a bit please. Could someone juxtapose the before and after photos so that we can ensure it is the same sword? It does take a looot of polishes to remove hi. Even Koto swords with polished down hi normally have remnants of the hi remaining in the ji 

[Rivkin]

At the risk of starting a heresy:

jigane has a strong Muromachi feel to it.

Kaga Ietsugu is likely one of the least faked smiths out there. Some very early works are decent, but overall its a typical Muromachi period mass production which imitates the works of better known schools.

 

Even without papers I personally by default would treat such blade strictly as shoshin. Even if its not an exact match to photographs on the internet, as long as the general stylistics - signature location, how deep and long are strikes etc. is a general match for the school.

 

[Geraint]

Dear All.

 

My apologies, I was just trailing my coat with that remark.  It was in response to the post by Sunny.  Of course it's not the same blade, that was really what I was trying to point out. 

 

All the best.

[FZ1]

Ahhhh - sorry Geraint, I'm not too bright these days! 

 

Jon