Japanese Type 95 Sword for NCOs

[Bruce Pennington]

11 hours ago, AzWaterboy said:

Almite coating

Patrick, you've been doing your homework!  That's the first thing I thought when I saw the color, too.

 

But I'm more concerned about the other things, like John mentioned.  The 14xxx number range, along with 30xxx, 40xxx, and a few 50xxx numbers, are common for the Polish reproductions.  And what da heck is that stamp by the number?

So, as we often see with these, their fuchi stamps are pretty darn close, but here is what they should look like:

 

Note how delicate the Suya stamp is, compared to the clunky version on yours.  Also, the center inspector stamps are always small, where yours it quite big.  Finally, the Kokura stamp, while better than the other fakers, is still off.

 

Note the fit of the parts.  Especially the saya thoat piece where it meets the saya.  Not a good fit.

 

The dimpling in the tsuka diamonds, while better than most fakes, is still not up to standard for a legit 95.  note how they fade away near the ito, and aren't even there in the half-diamond nearest the fuchi.  Here's a couple examples of legit dimpling:

 

They make very good replicas, which is why it can be a challenge identifying them.

[AzWaterboy]

Thanks so much everyone for the information!! Wish I had done some more homework previously. If anyone has any idea about the kanji script, Id still like to know about that. Thanks again

 

Patrick

[Bruce Pennington]

@SteveM can confirm the gibberish quality of this, but I'll touch on the date.

 

This is trying to be an arsenal produced WWII NCO sword, so IF dated and signed, which to my knowledge has never been seen, the date would have to be a Showa date, like - 

昭   Sho

和   wa

十   Ju

二二  Shi 

年   Nen

六   Roku

月   Gatsu

 

Just an example

 

But this one is trying to be something old like

But the kanji doesn't match anything I can find in the dating chart.  So, something like Kwansho 9 (1468) then the "year" kanji is butchered, should be "年", but it's not; then 9th month, which is close to "月"; then 9th day, but the day "日" is butchered, too.

[SteveM]

I think its trying to say

寛文九年九月九日　Kanbun 9 (1669)

 

but, yes, all these characters are horribly cut. 

[AzWaterboy]

Really really appreciate all your help guys...Thank you!!

[Scogg]

Reviving this thread from the dead. I did my best to collaborate all the relevant links already shared, and hope it helps anyone who might be reading along.

I'm diving into the study of type 95s, and have collected these links. I also have the Fuller & Gregory books, and Dawsons Cyclopedia. @BANGBANGSAN @Kiipu @Bruce Pennington tagging ya'll incase you have any recommendations. 

Am I missing any critical publications, links, downloads, or information not already included in this thread? How did members like @Shamsy know which serial numbers related to manufacture years?

Thanks for reading,
Cheers,
-Sam

Types/general: http://ohmura-study.net/957.html
Blade: http://ohmura-study.net/791.html
Tsuka: http://ohmura-study.net/792.html
Saya: http://ohmura-study.net/793.html
Stamps: http://ohmura-study.net/794.html
1 Copper example: https://www.guntoartswords.com/010737.html

Page one: https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/31314-Japanese-type-95-sword-for-ncos/#comment-320720

https://www.warrelic...ype-95-gunto-676112/

https://www.warrelic...o-sword-info-228172/

Tassels: https://www.warrelic...-788442/#post2154241
https://www.jacar.ar...mage-en/C01005289200
https://www.jacar.ar...mage-en/C01005222500

[rebcannonshooter]

Hi Sam,

I'm not sure where in Oregon you live, but I have three Type 95's of various models. I'm extending an open invitation to come to my house and study them (as well as other military swords). I live in Idleyld Park, Oregon, so you can estimate how long of a drive it is. 

 

    Let me know, Tom

[Scogg]

4 minutes ago, rebcannonshooter said:

Hi Sam,

I'm not sure where in Oregon you live, but I have three Type 95's of various models. I'm extending an open invitation to come to my house and study them (as well as other military swords). I live in Idleyld Park, Oregon, so you can estimate how long of a drive it is. 

 

    Let me know, Tom

Hi Tom, that's very generous of you! I'd love to take you up on that. I live a bit north, in a suburb of the dreaded Portland Metro area.

Coincidentally, soon I am hoping to visit another collector (also named Tom ) in Roseburg! Maybe I can combine my trip/visits. 

I'll reach out if and when I plan on making that drive, and coordinate with you . (hopefully Feb or March)
Thanks again!
Cheers,
-Sam

[rebcannonshooter]

Hi Sam,

I know the "other" Tom very well, (my wife and I are having dinner with him and his wife this weekend),  whenever you get in the area we'll set something up!

Tom M.

[Conway S]

Sam, 

 

One of the longer threads about Type 95s on NMB:

 

Type 95 Gunto Worksheet

 

- Starts with late Suya production swords with un-fullered blades 

- Mentions rare subcontractor Mizuno

- Discusses Ichi and Kobe swords 

 

Another unique post on the Pattern 3 with the transitional tsuba and Jinsen Arsenal inspection marks:

 

Type 95 Transitional Tsuba

 

 

Conway 

[Bruce Pennington]

Evolution of the Japanese Type 95 Gunto - Nick Komiya, Warrelics

[Scogg]

Thank you Conway, those are new to me! 
 

Thank you too, @Bruce Pennington, but I’ve got that one. It’s one of the more informative threads though, and full of great info and images. I have a lot of reading to do! 
 

Have you done any cataloging of 95s, like you do with other gunto?

Cheers,

-Sam 

[Bruce Pennington]

No, that would be @Kiipu and @BANGBANGSAN.  I feel like there is another guy, but I don't remember who.

[Grimmdarkspire]

Hey everyone, I’ve thoroughly reviewed the entire thread and a few others, but I couldn’t find any information about green handle type 95s. Initially, I thought only the Kobe company produced green handles, but now I’ve discovered they’re also available on others made by other manufacturers. Based on this, I assume all companies could produce green or brown handles, as well as various colors on the scabbards, as has been repeatedly mentioned in the scabbard discussions per regulations.

 

I’ve also searched Jim Dawson’s and Richard Fuller’s books, but I couldn’t find any clear information on this topic. Can someone shed some light on this for me? I’ve been collecting these type 95s for 23 years, and I still don’t know the answer. I know someone here has it.

 

Thanks for all your time and attention! 

[John C]

Seth:

Just my two cents - it certainly could be an in-theater repaint or simply the paint color chosen by the arsenal. But just in general, they weren't afraid of color! As an example, the pic below shows the variation in 94/98 saya color. More importantly, it doesn't appear recent.

 

John C.

[Conway S]

The green tsuka ito appears from time to time. I’ve seen quite a few on Iijima swords. I guess a question it raises for me is whether the tsuka for Type 95s were made in-house by the subcontractors or provided from an external supplier. 
 

Conway 

[Krzysio]

Like to add my Type 95 sword to the conversation.

This is my first Japanese sword , 

 

Edited October 21 by Krzysio

[Scogg]

36 minutes ago, Krzysio said:

Like to add my Type 95 sword to the conversation.

This is my first Japanese sword , 

Hi Krzysio, is that your name? We like to have at least a first name for members here so we can be personable. Just forum guidelines

Congrats on your first Japanese sword! Very exciting.

It is a very nice pattern2 example with low serial number and aluminum hilt. The copper fuchi has the Iijima factory stamp, TO ( 東) stamp, and the Kokura 4 cannonball stamp.  Something particularly interesting about your sword is that it's amongst some of the lower serial numbers out of the Iijima Factory. 

Thank you for sharing, and welcome aboard! 
Best regards,
-Sam

[John C]

Matching serial number on saya and blade, which is always good. It also appears to be the thicker 11mm tsuba, which also means early in the production. 

 

John C.

[Scogg]

9 minutes ago, John C said:

Matching serial number on saya and blade, which is always good. It also appears to be the thicker 11mm tsuba, which also means early in the production. 

 

John C.

That's possible, and I have heard this said about carry over 11mm tsuba; but I am still trying to confirm or deny this idea. I have never personally seen an aluminum type 95 with 11mm tsuba. I would be very interested in a caliper measurement @Krzysio, if you are able. My Suya #7249 definitely has the 9mm version.

Nick Koyima states in his warrelics thread (linked below) "Short Development History of Type 95 Gunto", on page 2:
"....Stu W's article describes the second model as having an aluminum grip and continuing to have a 11 mm thick Tsuba, but the Tsuba design was definitely switched to 9 mm thickness at the same time as gaining aluminum grips.
The only possible and likely reconciliation is that mixing of old and new specs occurred to use up remaining stock of old Tsubas and Seppas...."
Link: https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/short-development-history-type-95-gunto-676112-2/

I would love to see a confirmed 11mm tsuba on aluminum 95, but it's been very difficult to track one down, and now I've become suspicious.
Best regards,

-Sam

[Scogg]

Maybe @Kiipu already has the answer. But I will add:

If such carry over did occur, it would be a very interesting data point. And a key detail in that narrow transitional period between the Copper and Aluminum tsuka.
 

I’m beginning to suspect one of two possibilities:

- They simply don’t exist: the transition to 9mm tsuba may have been complete at the time of aluminum tsuka production began; and overstock was repurposed elsewhere.

- Carry over occurred in very limited and factory-specific number, for example: perhaps only the earliest GIFU stamped swords, or maybe 11mm tsuba overstock was only given to select contractors like Iijima. 
 

This is a mystery I would really like to help unravel. If anyone has any photographic evidence, firsthand examples, or period documentation to show this carryover, I’d love to see it. I have been actively searching.
 

I hope that we can figure this out, even eliminating possibilities helps us move closer to the truth.
All the best,
-Sam

[Krzysio]

Yes my name is Krzysio

Its a diminutive form of Polish name Krzysztof.

To make it easy for all, the name its just Kris.

 

I rally love this sword , only seen photos of it. Found it at auction house and got lucky with my bid.

Very happy that it is a good one and very early production for this model.

Now got me really appreciate the quality in Japanese swords. Hope to get other examples of this sword. There is so much to learn.

 

Regarding The Tsuba  it is 9mm.

 

 

 

 

[Scogg]

Thank you for clearing that up Kris, and a pleasure to meet you! 

Also, thank you for getting the caliper measurement of your tsuba. That goes a long way for my records, and is a challenging data point to collect. So it is very much appreciated. 

Very cool sword, and congratulations on winning the auction.
If you have any questions, we are always here to help 
All the best,
-Sam

[Bruce Pennington]

Kris,

Welcome to the addiction!  If you haven't already done so, read up on sword care - Japanese Sword Care - Japaneseswordindex.com, and go online for a cleaning kit.  You can get them for less than $20.  Just google "Japanese sword cleaning kit."

 

Now you need an Army officer sword and a Navy kaigunto!

[Krzysio]

Bruce thats one great addiction to have. Full of benefits. 

That cleaning kit is one i will need to get, thanks for the link.

Already got my first hand made 98 officer sword and the filling is amazing. 

Navy kaigunto?, now i know what to look for.

The WW2 Shin Gunto swords really got me hooked.