Kyu-gunto Russo-Japanese sword???? non sharp Need Help

[Last-Samurai]

Hello users!

 

Two weeks ago I bought this sword of a men who told me that this an old Japanese officier sword made after 1904, he told me.I am collecting antiques of all kind since many years.

As this sword appeared to me as an old piece, i bought it.

 

Is this a Kyu-gunto russo-Japanese sword made 1904-1945 ?????

Naval or army use??

for decorative use?

a rare piece?

condition?

value?

 

It is 86 cm long, and non sharp.

 

Any ideas or informations to this object are welcome!!!!

 

& Greetings

Last-Samurai

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stephen]

looks to be Kyugunto...have you had a go to see if its signed? cant tell much without blade shots

[Last-Samurai]

Sorry, it took a while...looking up the wikiped. Japanese translations

 

How to open the mekugi ?

 

On the habaki and the saya there are no numbers, i never tried to look under the tsuka, i had never done this before...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stephen]

dont think you need to remove the handle, blade looks machine made.

[Tokaido]

Hi Andreas,

sorry, but this sword looks like a reproduction in my opinion.

Reproduction of this type (and the shin gunto type) were sold during the last years for example by the German Company Frankonia.

Clues: no same on the hilt but white leather, very bad ending of the hi in the tip, unsharpened blade, slightly rougher casting of the brass parts, if compared with the genuine items. Slightly better than the ugly chinese fakes, but still not the real thing.

Greetings

Andreas

[Brian]

I agree it could be a repro. If not,then someone has buffed the heck out of it, and rounded all the lines badly.

Take out the mekugi and see what the tang looks like?

 

Brian

[Last-Samurai]

How to open the mekugi ?

 

[pauljbv]

You can google Kyugunto and find sites selling repros. The ones I found did not have a steel scabbard but rather the leather covered type with brass fittings. They also had mock same covered grips.

 

This could original but a late war version with a simple machine made blade and white grip covering of some artificial ersatz material. There does seem to be some age to the one shown.

 

Judging something like this based on photos is tough. Also repros have gone through various stages as well so this could be a not so great early repro.

[Brian]

Andreas,

There looks to be a wooden peg in the top of the handle, which is the mekugi. It should push out from one side to the other (it may be tapered and remove from one side only)

Once that is out, you should be able to slip the handle off downwards and see the nakago.

Do it gently, in case there is another method of retention.

Still not sure if this is wartime machine made or a repro, the tang should tell more.

 

Brian

[dirk marshall]

These are officer grade russo mounts, appears different from mounts pictured:

 

[dirk marshall]

the drag on the scabbard are pretty standard on russo mounts and ones posted appear to be a little smaller then these:

 

[Last-Samurai]

Andreas,

There looks to be a wooden peg in the top of the handle, which is the mekugi.

 

It is not a wooden peg, it is iron and dificult to put it out.

 

I tried with a screwdriver and a hammer.

 

To understand it the right way, to know if the sword is made before 1945 the mekugi has to be put out??? Is that right??The pics I uploaded gave no answer to the question how old the sword is?

 

Greetings

[Brian]

Andreas,

A machine made mass produced blade will look the same often, whether a fake or older.

I don't think you are looking at an antique blade here though. Even if not a fake, it would be a standard mass produced blade. The tang is what tells you most, as fakes rarely put any real work into it, and age is easier to identify.

However, if you have steel there, then it is not a standard mekugi, and don't force it out. You will have to get it to someone who knows something to have them look at it.

 

The groove and blade lines are sloppy on this one, which idicates no real care in manufacture. That tells me the most imho, but I could be mistaken. Is the peg a screw or just a pin?

 

Brian

[Last-Samurai]

The riddle is exposed, a hard work...

The oil was not on the tang as i opened it, i used oil.

 

Here are the pics!

 

Seems to me the tang was scrapped off. A note that it was stolen?????

 

Greetings

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Last-Samurai]

 

 

 

 

[Brian]

Andreas,

Sorry to see that. To me it looks to verify it is a repro. Even if not, it is a machine made blade that was very roughly ground to fit in those mounts. Little chance it is an older blade that was remounted. That is a nasty job of fitting, and I wouldn't put too much emphasis on it as a collectors sword unfortunately. Hope it wasn't too expensive.

 

Brian

[Last-Samurai]

Brian,

 

I paid 230 € (340 US $), is it to much?

 

Thanx for help!

[pcfarrar]

$340 is way too much for a repro. You could buy a real one for that price.

 

There is one on ebay with an old wakizashi blade for $680 at the moment. This one shows well how they sometimes adjust the nakago to fit the mounts.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190245187155

[Last-Samurai]

I have a german ebay account.

 

I hate this sentence from ebay, refering to see

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190245187155

 

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Dear User:

 

Unfortunately, access to this particular item has been blocked due to legal restrictions in some countries. We are blocking your viewing in an effort to prevent restricted items from being displayed. Regrettably, in some cases, we may prevent users from accessing items that are not within the scope of said restrictions because of limitations of existing technology. Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience this may cause, and we hope you may find other items of interest on eBay.

 

Thank You.

 

Hit the return button to return to the previous page.

 

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Does somebody know how to turn this off???, and to see the item?

[pcfarrar]

You need to use a US based proxy on your web browser to get around this problem.

[Tokaido]

Hi Andreas,

to get rid of the ebay blocking function, simply be sure to remove "GERMAN" as language in your browser and/or windoof system

No abroad proxy etc needed.

 

Greetings

Andreas

[Last-Samurai]

Thanks pcfarrar and Tokaido for helping me with the ebay problem.

[zetozeto99]

Plain and simple.... this is a fake. It is clearly "antiqued" to make it look older than it is. Cheap Chinese junk sword. Not even a machine made "parade sword". Sorry to burst your's or anyone else's bubble. Hope you didn't pay too much for it.

[lonely panet]

Yep that sure does look like a indian/china copy. im very sorry for you and i hope you didnt lose to much money. i really dislike the peaple who peddle this type of rubbish.

[Last-Samurai]

So i can be sure that all pieces of this sword were made after 1945, is that right?

 

Thanks for help !!!!!!

 

Greetings

[Brian]

Andreas,

No, you can't be 100% sure, but that is the opinion of the members here from pics online and not having the item in hand.

But the nakago is shot anyways, and the blade is rough and overbuffed. I am not sure if they were making fakes before the war either, but likely it is a post war fake from India or Pakistan.

 

Brian

[Last-Samurai]

Thanks Thanks Thanks

 

for your help and spending time !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Hope to give something back.....

 

Greetings from Germany

 

Last-Samurai