Tosogu Untouchable Or Viable For Changes?

[raynor]

Greetings all,

 

In general what do you think about pairing loose antique fittings with loose antique blades to (re)make koshirae?

 

I am asking mainly about making actual changes to fittings to for example a tsuba to make it fit on a beefier blade, but I am also curious about peoples opinions on this.

 

From a pure preservation standpoint it is obviously a no go but so one could argue regarding the additions of new mekugi-ana or shortening of tangs in days past when these things were tools of war.

 

I have a Kaga shinshinto blade in shirasaya with its copper habaki intact and a tsunagi, as well as a Edo tsuba I think could be a nice starting point for a full mount.

 

The tsuba in question I do not think hold much value, I would obviously not use say a well preserved, papered and signed work for this. Attaching a photo of it.

[TETSUGENDO]

Omar,

 

If the items in question are of slightly larger dimensions than needed they can be adjusted by adding sekigane, shims etc.  If they are smaller your options become potentially destructive, and/or costly to modify if, for example, a new tsuka is needed.  I can't, in all good conscience, endorse the possible distruction of fine pieces by those in no position to judge their merit.  If anyone is contemplating taking this on.....I would encourage them to seek professional advice before doing anything.

 

Cheers,

    -S-

[raynor]

Hi Steven,

 

Thanks for your input. In this case there is no tsuka, I acquired the bare blade in shirasaya with only its habaki, the tsuba would have to be filed to fit the blades nakago as the blade is slightly larger in all directions.

 

Obviously I will leave it to professionals to do both any destructive work as well as creative, like new tsuka and saya etc.

 

I'm interested in peoples view from a philosophical point I recon, as even tho in my case the tsuba in question is no lost treasure it is still an antique with the potential to once again fulfill its purpose and be part of a koshirae versus staying a standalone unaltered piece.

[vajo]

Its a fine tsuba, dont destroy it.

[Pete Klein]

To be honest I'd go for it just as long as it was all done professionally AND that you realize that you will most likely never retrieve your investmant in the koshirae.  As you live in Miami why not run it past Mo Becerra who is in the area?  https://nihontoantiques.com/

[raynor]

Hi Pete,

 

I'm submitting the blade to Shinsa in a couple months with his help since I cant attend the session myself, I plan to run it by him then.

[Pete Klein]

Very good idea.  Good luck with it!

[Rodenbacher]

In most cases Tsuba where made to be fitted later. The Nakago-Ana was worked in a standard shape so it could be adapted when fitted to a blade - and a lot of Tsuba show later adaptations, have been widened by filing or chiseling or have been made smaller with sekigane, often two or three times, this has been a normal procedure. So in my opinion it is not a crime to adjust a Tsuba to a blade, the Tsuba in your picture was obviously made to be adjusted later.

 

In the 19th century western collectors sometimes drilled holes into a Tsuba to fix them to a display or even engraved collection numbers into the seppa-dai. This is a completely different thing as adjustments like that have never been intended by Tsubako and destryoed the compostion of the inlay etc.

 

As long as you are going with the intentions of the Tsubako you won't fail in my opinion  - I know I will be stoned to death by a shitstorm of picky collectors, but it's worth that!

 

Peter

[TETSUGENDO]

Peter,

 

What is wrong with your statement?....CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT.  Your Tsubako never envisioned some ham-fisted amateur in 2019 applying his 'talents', or enlisting some self styled 'expert' to fit his tsuba.  Again, if anyone has intentions of taking this on........HIRE A PROFESSIONAL!

 

Cheers,

    -S-

[Blazeaglory]

Lol ham fisted

 

I think we all know my opinion on this matter.

 

It reminds me of the intro to that old series from the 70s... The million dollar man i think it was? "We've got the technology, we can do it!"

 

But You know, as I type this, I'm looking at my Ko-Kinko copper tsuba and I'm thinking "If I had to, would I file to fit?" And I think the answer is no. I'm just lucky the sword I bought it for fits right on, or technically in, with a little coaxing. But honestly I don't think I could take the hams to it.

 

Actually the mere thought of it now makes me light headed and queasy... so to the delight of some, I'm outta here

[vajo]

I have 3 Tsuba with "newly fitted" nakago ana. My heart bleed allways when i look to them. The patina has gone and they look very sad. To restore und refiting a blade it needs time and money. "Herumfeilen" on a antique piece which has collectors worth to fit on another blade is not in the sense of preserving Nihonto.

[cuttingedge59]

As one who has done the fitting of a tsuba to a nakago i always go the path of no modifications to any Tosogu.

I simply fit the habaki and seppa to the nakago and then measure the dimensions at the point where the tsuba will fit with a pair of engineers verniers.

 

Then it is simply a matter of looking at the dealers offerings to find a combination of size and theme to suit the rest of the koshirae.

it can take time and patience but well worth while in the long run.

 

Chris NZ

[Hoshi]

To fit to a larger blade you remove metal, to fit to a smaller blade you add sekigane. Filling into sekigane is not a destructive process. If you shave metal inside the nakago then you lose the patina, but keep in mind the piece can be repatinated to look original. The key here is to be tasteful and get advice from a professional.

 

Some Tsubas are so precious you'd never want to mess with them at all. We're not going to mess with a Juyo-level Tsuba. Aside from that, and specific late-edo cases where Tsubas were made to be admired in boxes and not mounted, it's fair game. I would even argue that building a tasteful, aesthetically refined Edo-inspired Koshirae is an act of restoration to the original goal of the Tosogu. Note that the key here is tasteful, and tasteful calls for outside opinions from artisans who have devoted their lives to this craft and appreciation. 

 

For the longest time these things were not mean to be admired in boxes, and one can argue that Tosogu only reveal their original, intended beauty while mounted. In fact, it can be argued that to prefer tosogu in boxed form over their intended koshirae incarnation is a form of aesthetic perversion. This perversion is the cause of incredibly destructive process of destroying priceless Koshirae to 'box the tosugu' so one could make a better profit from the people who abide to this perversion. If this perversion didn't exist we'd have many more restored original Koshirae to marvel at. 

 

Get advice, study, and mount it tastefully. You'll do the Tosogu a favor. 

[PNSSHOGUN]

It has been constantly done for centuries & done right as we speak in Japan and other countries. As long as it is a professional job I see no issues if the Tsuba is of nominal value.

[raynor]

In case I didnt mention it, were I to mount the Edo tsuba in question it would be by paying a professional, my ham hands wont come near it save for yearly choji applications. I might be a novice in these things but I dare say I am not a babbling idiot ????

 

Thanks for all the input so far.