Identifying Old Katana From Our Family Heirloom And If There Is Any Value To Them

[bleaches]

Hoping someone could help me to see if these katana are of any value. These have been in my family since the beginning of the Japanese occupation of Taiwan and was apparently gifted to my ancestors. There are three. One is a wakizashi that has no name or mark on the tang. One is most likely from the Sengoku era ~1600s based on the thickness of the spine. And the last one which I thought was imperial Japan era (due to its fittings) turns out is from late Edo era 1760~1850.

​

​

​

​

​

​

​

 

 

​The older one seems to have a ray skin covered Saya which is pretty interesting. I was not able to knock out the pin to look at the tang. The wooden dowel is so deformed and wrecked from who knows who that tried to knock it out decades ago.

The other one which I thought was imperial Japan era I was able to check the tang revealing its name to me as 三川国岡崎住神風真菅 (Mikawa Okazaki Sumikin Kan San). Which is late Edo era as per this PDF I found. https://okazaki-kanko.jp/image/resou...document2/2964

I am hoping someone is able to tell me if these are worth any historical value or just a regular old family heirloom. Thanks in advance.

[Jean]

Peter/Paul/Philip

 

Your are supposed to sign all your posts with your first name and an initial as per the board rules.

 

Please comply so we can address you politely

[Jean]

Hi Peter,

 

Welcome on board.

 

Province is Sanshu (aka Mikawa)

 

http://www.sho-shin.com/tokai4.htm

 

Perhaps Sanemori (smithname)

[bleaches]

Thanks for the welcome. I am glad I discovered this community. of the name inscribed onto the tang. How would I break it up to find out where its from vs the blade smith. 三川国岡崎住神風真菅 I assume 三川国岡崎住 is the place 三川国Sanshuko, 岡崎 Okazaki (city?) and followed by blade smith name 神風真菅 Kamikaze (devine wind) Masuga. Is this assumption correct?

 

I am assuming this is a series of swords since the PDF I sent seem to have a sword of the same "makers mark" on display at the exhibit. 

 

How would one try to restore the blade without damaging it. Over the last couple of generations due to the high humidity of Taiwan and improper storage there is a lot of surface rust. I want to remove the rust next time I fly back but want to do so without damaging the blade. The imperial era fittings I could care less since it was mass produced for gov/military/police officials to wear as "uniform" if you will. I want to preserve the blade in a better form than it is now. 

 

As for the katana that I could not remove the dowel from. I was thinking of taking a slightly smaller sized drill bit and pierce it through and get rid of the loose pieces so I can see what is beneath the tsuka. Does anyone have a better suggestion. Please keep in mind the dowel pin wood is old, broken and slightly rotten.

[SteveM]

三州岡崎住　Sanshū-Okazaki jū  (looks vaguely like 三川 , but I feel it is probably 三州 Sanshū as this is the usual way to write the location)

神風　Kamikaze or Shinpū

真菅　Masuga or Sanesuga

 

Doing a quick search online I can't find a smith with this name. The only hit is the pdf that you linked to, and in that pdf, in the "notes" section, it says 「岡崎　伊奈勘」, which I'm not sure how to interpret. 伊奈 (Ina) is a location near Okazaki. It could also be a last name. My inclination is to think this refers to the real name of the smith 伊奈 勘 (Ina Sadashi?) but the given name of 勘 by itself is unusual, so I don't have a lot of confidence in that interpretation. Plus, if you have an "art name" and a real name, and still cannot find any hits on the internet, you know you have either a super obscure smith, or a wild goose chase.  

 

Masuga (真菅) is a location name in Nara prefecture, which is a bit far from Okazaki. Also, Masuga would be an unusual reading for a personal name. I think the reading of the smith's name would be Sanesuga, but as I mention above, I couldn't find any reference to a Sanesuga. 

 

The Kamikaze/Shinpū is unusual. 

[SteveM]

Also, if you look on this site for info on restoring swords, you will get a ton of hints. Also look in the FAQ section. The short version is, don't attempt anything yourself other than perhaps wiping with a lightly oiled cloth (cloth and oil types are also a frequent topic of discussion here).

 

We see a lot of blades that are damaged, if not completely ruined, by people who want to get rid of the rust and bring the shine back. Avoid the temptation to scrape off the rust, especially if the rust is already stable. Restoration by a professional sword polisher costs around $2000 after all is said and done, which often is worth more than the sword itself. 

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Peter,

Here is a care and etiquette site; please read it.  Don't use a drill to remove the broken pin.  With a small punch or nail set you should be able to clear the pieces and get the handle off.  Make sure to whittle a new pin when you get done; the pin is very important.  You can scrape off much of the red rust on the blade with a piece of bone or antler and then place a thin coat of oil.  Don't do anything to clean the tang.

Grey

[Dave R]

 This is one of the cases where I would suggest  using Uchiko. It is very mildly abrasive, and would help to remove the rust, and you would only be doing just what it's original owners would have done. I would say, get a decent quality one though, Namikawa Hebei sell the powder quite cheaply and I doubt you could get better quality. They also use Paypal and have an easy to use website for ordering. 

 

http://www.namikawa-ltd.com/product-list?keyword=uchiko&Submit=Search

[Stephen]

Red rust= bad rust that never sleeps.

Lightly oiled rag wont stop the good patina. Dont go Rambo on it just wipe till

the red stops on rag.

[bleaches]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I will definitely look into that for cleaning the sword up next time I fly back. 

 

As for the identification of the smith I have emailed NBTHK (Society for the Preservation of Japanese Art Swords) in Europe for them to put me in touch with their counterpart in Tokyo. The Tokyo office does not have a public email so hopefully I can find more information once they forward me to them. The PDF I sent of the exhibition is hosted by the NBTHK in the Sanshū region. This is going to be a long road to hunt down the origins of this sword. 

Hi Peter,

Here is a care and etiquette site; please read it.  Don't use a drill to remove the broken pin.  With a small punch or nail set you should be able to clear the pieces and get the handle off.  Make sure to whittle a new pin when you get done; the pin is very important.  You can scrape off much of the red rust on the blade with a piece of bone or antler and then place a thin coat of oil.  Don't do anything to clean the tang.

Grey

Thanks Grey. I tried a punch last time for a good 20 mins with no luck. It just seemed to compress and swell the broken pin even more. May I ask how you would approach this with a nail as you have mentioned?

[bleaches]

Also, Is it normal for wakizashi blades not to be named or maker marked? I found that odd when I looked at the tang and could not find any markings. Interesting thing is after I took off the canvas wrap I discovered this beautiful dragon fuchi underneath. 

 

[Grey Doffin]

Peter,

I said nail set, not nail.  Use a needle nose pliers or hemostat to pull out pieces of the mekugi and the nail set to break lose new pieces; eventually you should have it clear enough the remove the handle.  You don't want to use a drill because that could damage the tang.

Grey

[SteveM]

Yes, it is very common for swords to not have signatures. 

 

Look somewhere on the nakago for a punch mark, even a faint one, that might identify it as an arsenal blade. Sometimes there are faint markings on the mune (the spine part) of the nakago as well. If no such mark, it could indicate an older blade.  You can find lots of examples on this site.

 

The red rust on the tip of that one blade is a bit worrying. I don't know if anyone would be able to polish that out. 

[mywei]

According to this site http://www.nbthk-gf.or.jp/ronbun03.htm the smith name was 伊奈勘蔵 Ina Kanzō

 

I can't find this smith listed in any of my references