Uh, what's this?!

[Guest Nanshoku-Samurai]

Hm, I don't know maybe just an iron Tsunagi ... though, I can't help it but think it might be an okay blade?

 

Looks at least Muromachi to me ... not might enough to have started out as a Naginata. Very slener Mune. I would like to think maybe some Yamato influence but hard to say as the Hadori covers it up quite nicely.

 

That's the tsunagi which came with the crap pardon crab / lobster theme Kodugu.

 

I really can't help it but think this one might deserve a new polish.

 

Any thoughts on it are most welcome unless you tell me it's a Tsunagi

 

Regards,

 

Max

[Guest Nanshoku-Samurai]

More pictures

[Guest nickn]

is it for sale?

[Guest Nanshoku-Samurai]

Hello Nick,

 

no unfortunately not. I was thinking of getting it polished and papered but would appreciate some cheap oppinions prior.

 

Best wishes

[John A Stuart]

Whether or not you get the blade polished this whole rig should be kept together. The koshirae will definitely paper and the blade seems to be in enough polish to get hozon. A shiage polish would not be too cost prohibitive. Maybe getting a true tsunagi and shirasaya made would be a good thing too. John

[Guest Nanshoku-Samurai]

Hello Johns,

 

thanks for your oppinion. Well, when submitting something for Shinsa I am always focusing on TBH +. So I wonder if this thing could make it TBH? It is suriage so it would have to be pre Muromachi. I would appreciate any oppinions on school and age.

 

Thanks,

 

max

[Guest Nanshoku-Samurai]

Well, if anybody dares to throw in his or hers 2cents that's most appreciated.

 

Sincerly, Max

[Guido]

Hello Johns,

 

thanks for your oppinion. Well, when submitting something for Shinsa I am always focusing on TBH +. So I wonder if this thing could make it TBH? It is suriage so it would have to be pre Muromachi. I would appreciate any oppinions on school and age.

 

Thanks,

 

max

Max, I hope I don't sound offensive, but the NBTHK shinsa isn't a lottery. If you're focusing on TokuHo and higher, you should by now know the quality associated with those rankings. Just compare it to your other Tokubetsu Hozon and Jûyô swords ...

[Guest Nanshoku-Samurai]

Hello Guido,

 

thank you for your reply. Unfortunately I don't have enough good blades to compare it to. I have only a couple Juyo and maybe one to two douzen TBH level swords and they are all very different. Especially when taking a Mumei piece which is not in great polish I find it hard to determine wheter it could make TBH. Therefore I was hoping for some cheap oppinions.

 

I would be happy if someone would give me his or her thoughts wheter to what school and periode they think this sword was made.

 

Thank you

 

Max

[Brian]

You see max!

Looking at all those good swords in polish has totally ruined your eyes for out of polish, average stuff. You should stop looking at good swords, and spend more time on eBay or flea markets!

 

Just kidding folks! It is just a parody. Do NOT follow that advice. :lol:

 

Max, without showing decent hada or hamon, I am not sure how far we can get with it. Anything would just be a bad guess. You already know that you should be sending it for at least a window to see what is under there and an opinion. Cheap opinions are very often only worth what they cost

 

Pics are a bit dark for me, maybe someone can see something that will lead to some hints.

Wish I was in the position to go for TH or nothing

 

Brian

[huntershooter]

It almost appears the hamon runs off the blade near the tip of blade.

If it does, that would be a consideration.

[Guest Nanshoku-Samurai]

Hello Todd,

 

my picture make it look like if it was running of but luckily it doesn't However it is rather shallow.

 

regards

[Guido]

I have only a couple Juyo and maybe one to two douzen TBH level swords and they are all very different.

Loosing count like that sounds like you have quite a collection.

[Guest reinhard]

I have only a couple Juyo and maybe one to two douzen TBH level swords and they are all very different.

Loosing count like that sounds like you have quite a collection.

 

Welcome to another theatre of the absurd. May Guido never loose his sense of humour!

 

reinhard

[remzy]

"...only a couple of juyo..." That's nuts! I wish i could afford at least one!

[Guest Nanshoku-Samurai]

Remy, you just have to keep on surfing eBay By the way, a couple can be as little as two ...

 

However it is difficult to judge a blade even if you have some quality examples at hand.

 

Some of the swords are small, some are rather large, some are old, some are rather new, then there are different temperlines and much more things going on. I'd dare to say each blade looks different ?! But they all can cut sausage! :D

 

Regards,

 

Max

 

PS: I don't eat sausage as I am vegetarian but cutting sausage will keep the sword oiled all the time and you can impress your wife and friends making their kitchen tools look poor! :lol: make sure not to use any fat reduced sausage on your Nihonto. The more fat the better!

[Guest reinhard]

I have only a couple Juyo and maybe one to two douzen TBH level swords

 

In other words: your swords aren't papered and you are e-bay kiddie, semi-expert and Shinsa personified. What do you need the board for?

 

reinhard

[Guest Nanshoku-Samurai]

I have only a couple Juyo and maybe one to two douzen TBH level swords

 

In other words: your swords aren't papered and you are e-bay kiddie, semi-expert and Shinsa personified. What do you need the board for?

 

reinhard

 

 

Hello Beinhard,

 

you are either a fine student of Freud or you must know me from somewhere. Well done! I couldn't describe myself any better.

 

What I need the board for? Maybe to give a full expert like you an opportunity to establish themselves over all the unworthy underclass people and thus granting them a certain joy of life. You are welcome and I am happy I could be of some help to you.

 

Regards,

 

Max

[remzy]

Okay guys, let's remain friendly in here...

[Guest Nanshoku-Samurai]

Hello Remzy,

 

nevermind. To be serious again: Whenever there are people there will (unfortunately) be conflics and things may get personal at times. However things of course shouldn't.

 

I come to this board to share my limited knowledge with other people if it serves them and to accquire further knowledge by asking others who know things better than I do.

 

I do know that people like Reinhard have a far far superior knowledge than I have. Thus I would be happy if they would help people with inferior knowledge like me by giving them some advice.

 

I understand that swords will be put down at times and there is nothing wrong with this. It serves no purpose to keep up bad swords and try to talk them in good ones.

 

However I certainly do not wish to be put down in a personal manner by others. Reinhard could have provided his 2cents on the sword in questionrather than trying to make me look bad.

 

I am probably younger than the average collector having started collecting Nihonto at around 17 and yes I have acquired 85% of my swords from eBay as I usually can't afford buying a papered sword. And yes I have limited knowledge on Nihonto. And finally I do only submitt swords which I think are worthy of Shinsa as I am on a budget.

 

Maybe much of this is wrong but still it has left me with some Juyo level swords and quite a few TBH level swords over the years (which almost all came off eBay). So I would like to think I did not do all that bad for a young uneducated eBay shopping ignorant and thus would like to encourage other new collectors with little money to enjoy this fine hobby. Sure you can buy good swords with no risk from a reputable dealer - and I would encourage anybody who can afford this to do so - but if everybody did this I assume we would not need this board as 90% of the discussion is on project / unpapered stuff.

 

I rather would request Reinhard not to reply to my postings at all in the future than to reply with personal offenses. These sure are available elesewhere and I do not need to come to this board.

 

Thank you,

 

Max

[Bungo]

" What do you need the board for? "

 

Actually quite a good question. Now if everyone answer " honestly " , then a lot of misunderstanding and bruised ego can be avoided,

 

I come to this message board basically to shoot the bulls and sneak in some stale jokes ( wow, check out the number of nonsensical messages I left behind ) . Once in a while bit$#@ and moan about Mr. Bush and his out of this world brilliant policies ( both domastic and foreign ).

Sometimes when I get some items I like , I share the pics on the board and try to get feedbacks and additional info ..........also comment on e-bay trash.

 

Rich Turner's blog is excellent but I also understand he is very serious about it so i don't register there but do read it regularly.I am an enviromentalist, I try to check my carbon imprint and not to pollute.

 

In short, I treat this board like an old English pub ( not to offend, Irish too ).

 

Now, meinen dear Reinhard, what do you need this board for ?

 

milt

[Jean]

" What do you need the board for? "

 

Actually quite a good question.

 

I like friendly talks, passionate people, but courteous. I have no ego or such incased that One have to go a long way to try to find and bruise it. For me, personnal comments are totally counter productive, a loss of time. I have no time to lose, live is too short. I am not interested in these people and discard them as childish and wait till they have grown up

 

We are on an Internationnal General Nihonto Forum, so we can expect everything included the worst : non interesting topics, bad pictures, uninteresting swords, craps ... but I do not care as each time I try to explain IMHO what is my feeling about the topic.

 

I have met beginners who were much like me years ago, I've seen them making the same mistakes and try to help them not doing them, trying to educate/upgrade slightly their taste.

 

In each member you'll find different people.

 

We have our lot of experts : Darcy, Reinhard, Ford, Carlo, Rich T & S, Docliss, John A stuart, Paul, Guido...people I like but seldom post : Paulb ...and many others

 

Experts on a forum have a duty : Educate the rookies and be patient because when one begins he is like new-born so it is a mistake to castigate.

 

Milt is probably one of the most interesting member of the Board. Nobody's know exactly his in depth knowledge on tosogu/kodogu but he has what few people have, it is an inborn understanding of what is Art. He could collect anything and his collection will be always top grade.

 

Our moderators : People being rude or making personnal attacks on the Board are directly

attacking them - so please, spare them for you won't be there without them.

I think that between Brian and Stephen we have a perfect tandem, Brian with his diplomatic side (perhaps too much diplomatic to my taste sometimes but always quick to step in) and Uncle Stephen in backup (and what backup!!) with thunderbolts in his right fist when needed.

 

I wish everyone could have the courtesy, politeness and behaviour as our Japanese members, Koichi-san and Morita-san and I would like to include also Darcy

[Brian]

Well said Jean, you expressed it perfectly.

The friction here has been increasing lately, and I am not sure if it is due to an increase of members, an increase in lower class swords being discussed, or just personality clashes. However my patience is wearing thin, and if I need to start banning people, then I will. I am only diplomatic to a point, but it is not worth the extra stress.

I would normally just delete the comments above, but I think people need to hear this, so I am going to hijack Max's thread for this. I am not only directing this to the people who make rude comments. Some of the blame has to go to people who make statements that can only be seen to encourage negative replies. If someone was to post a message saying "I am a sword sensei, and a Ninja" then can you blame others for not being able to hold in sarcastic replies? However the difference between mature collectors and part time "kids" is that we have to hold back comments that contribute nothing to the aims of the board. Rather let the mods handle them, than lead the thread down a one way path.

What I am saying is that I expect adult collectors to have the maturity to either ignore statements that irk them, or just add others that they disagree with to their foes list and not see the comments. And if you post something that is fairly ridiculous and someone does call you out on it, then have the maturity to ignore it, apologise, argue in private, or leave it for someone in charge to handle.

I am saying this for the last time. I am going to add another mod or 2 in the comming days, and they will be stricter than me. Both myself and Stephen need less stress, and I am hoping that with more mods, some of you guys can learn a bit of self control.

I have seen a good increase in useful and decent info lately, and can't understand why it is often ruined by a single thoughless comment or 2. For the sake of the other 3000 people reading this forum, can we please get back on track?

 

Brian

 

Edit to add: I don't think any of us needs the forum, much as we don't need the internet or need to collect. Some of us do it because we enjoy it, enjoy sharing knowledge, are looking for info, or just like to spend time with others that share our interests. It is not a need, but it is appreciated by everyone that receives help.

[Jean]

Both myself and Stephen need less stress

 

That is a great responsibility for you and Stephen to have accepted this task and would like to thank you both for it

[Guest reinhard]

Thus I would be happy if they would help people with inferior knowledge like me by giving them some advice.

 

I've been called elitist before and I can live with it gladly, but I lay stress on the fact, that I've never had a problem with simple questions as long as I can hear genuine interest in the subject. My less polite side awakens, when I get the impression of wasting my time on a commercial subject without being told so. Questions like "what's it worth and what papers will it possibly get?" without further interest turn it on.

 

I have acquired 85% of my swords from eBay as I usually can't afford buying a papered sword. but still it has left me with some Juyo level swords and quite a few TBH level swords over the years (which almost all came off eBay).

 

There is an irony to this which provokes sarkasm (not to be confused with plain offence) You're looking for advice on unpapered swords mainly purchased on e-bay. So far so good. At the same time you're talking of your "Juyo level" and "TBH level swords" as if anybody but the (NBTHK) shinsa could officially determine these quality levels. You sounded as if you could; therefore my question: "What do YOU need the board for?"

 

Sure you can buy good swords with no risk from a reputable dealer - and I would encourage anybody who can afford this to do so - but if everybody did this I assume we would not need this board as 90% of the discussion is on project / unpapered stuff.

 

Many of us would still appreciate this board and others would join.

 

I rather would request Reinhard not to reply to my postings at all in the future than to reply with personal offenses. These sure are available elesewhere and I do not need to come to this board.

 

I've come across this plaintive attitude before; sometimes it was held up on purpose

 

If Brian, Stephen or any other mod want me to leave the board, I will without complaints.

 

Brian, Stephen, need some adresses of wellness resorts to recover: PM me.

 

reinhard

[Bungo]

I know I am sticking my neck out a wee bit on this but...............

 

Felix, you are like a fine XO cognac, quickens my blood circulation. Need to be sipped and savored slowly.................... calm down a little and don't taste like a Kentucky moonshine and everyone will be happy.

 

Peace................

 

milt

[remzy]

I would like to add two things,

First that i love this board and the users here, some things bug me sometime but the knowledge and interesting stuff here far outweight the minor negative sides.

 

Second, i would like to add that the day wouldnt exist without the night.

i respect and admire every single nihonto out there no matter the condition its in and i think (personnal opinion there) that we all should try to find at least one positive thing to say about the nihonto we are currently looking at (be it at a sword show or wherever), theres always something interesting to discover... i might sound naive but i dont care. Of course i love to look at Juyo level swords but the juyo of today might have been the crappy sword of yesterday and the other way around might be true aswell.

 

My personnal nihonto collection isnt much to most, i have very limited knowledge but immence respect, love and passion for the craft, past and present.

Anyways, as i said, only my personnal opinion here.

[Mark Green]

Hi Gang,

IMHO, I think your sword to be a cut down pole weapon. Likely from the 14-1500's. It looks like it needs some work, but looks very nicely shaped into a wak. Likely done in the 1600's, maybe before. I like the shape. I bet it was a very nasty naginata/maki. It would look natural on the end of a fighting pole.

If it has no cracks, polish and paper, if it will. Or better yet, see if it will paper first. If it does at all, than polish and enjoy, of move it to someone that will.

Again JMHO, Mark G