Consultation, Request For Information About My Sword

[pgtortosa]

Hello, my name is Pablo.

 

I recently purchased this piece, I really liked it a lot, but I do not understand anything about it, and now I have doubts.

 

Is it an original piece or can it be an old replica?

 

what economic value can it have?

 

 

On the other hand I do not have any info on the sword, I only know, or I think I know that it is a ceremonial takogawa tachi.

 

Dear, since I thank you any info dobre the same.

 

 

best regards

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Marius]

Hi Pablo,

 

The hollyhock mon has nothing to do with Tokugawa. It was often used as a sign of prestige after the demise of the shogunate. What you have here is a sword in Meiji period tachi mountings (koshirae). The blade looks like a real Japanese sword (nihonto). 

 

Please do not do anything with this sword - no cleaning whatsoever, or you might damage it and significantly reduce the value. If there is any rust, apply machine oil (no other kind of oil!), but very sparingly. The sword is out of polish, which will make an identification a bit more difficult. Please do not attempt to polish it - only a qualified polisher can do it. Whatever YOU do, you will damage what seems a healthy sword.

 

In order to say more about your acquisition, we would need to see the shape of the bare blade. Do you know how to get it out of the hilt (tsuka)?

 

Here is a guide for you. Please do READ it, BEFORE handling the sword:

 

http://www.nbthk-ab.org/swordcare.pdf

 

and some more of the same kind:

 

https://www.japaneseswordindex.com/care.htm

 

http://weblog.tozando.com/Japanese-sword-mainteance-guide-part-2-how-to-maintain-your-sword/

[TheGermanBastard]

As Marius said it is a Meiji periode mounted piece, set up for sale to tourists, Don't expect a good blade in that mount. The blade is most likely a rather late blade given its structure. A Kanbun Shinto piece at the earliest but I think it is most likely a late Edo periode piece that got remounted. Pull of the Handle and we acan tell for sure. The economic value is roughly about 750 - 1500 USD. You should most likely not get it polished but keep it for what it is.

[pgtortosa]

Hi Pablo,

 

The hollyhock mon has nothing to do with Tokugawa. It was often used as a sign of prestige after the demise of the shogunate. What you have here is a sword in Meiji period tachi mountings (koshirae). The blade looks like a real Japanese sword (nihonto). 

 

Please do not do anything with this sword - no cleaning whatsoever, or you might damage it and significantly reduce the value. If there is any rust, apply machine oil (no other kind of oil!), but very sparingly. The sword is out of polish, which will make an identification a bit more difficult. Please do not attempt to polish it - only a qualified polisher can do it. Whatever YOU do, you will damage what seems a healthy sword.

 

In order to say more about your acquisition, we would need to see the shape of the bare blade. Do you know how to get it out of the hilt (tsuka)?

 

Here is a guide for you. Please do READ it, BEFORE handling the sword:

 

http://www.nbthk-ab.org/swordcare.pdf

 

and some more of the same kind:

 

https://www.japaneseswordindex.com/care.htm

 

http://weblog.tozando.com/Japanese-sword-mainteance-guide-part-2-how-to-maintain-your-sword/

Marius: thank you very much for the information and the advice.

they were very helpful

I will try to disarm the sword and upload more pictures so maybe I can have more info.

 

regards

[pgtortosa]

As Marius said it is a Meiji periode mounted piece, set up for sale to tourists, Don't expect a good blade in that mount. The blade is most likely a rather late blade given its structure. A Kanbun Shinto piece at the earliest but I think it is most likely a late Edo periode piece that got remounted. Pull of the Handle and we acan tell for sure. The economic value is roughly about 750 - 1500 USD. You should most likely not get it polished but keep it for what it is.

thank you very much for the information and the advice.

they were very helpful

I will try to disarm the sword and upload more pictures so maybe I can have more info.

 

regards

[Brian]

Disarm = dismantle

[leo]

 

Dear Pablo,

I think Marius meant that the aoi-mon(triple hollyhock-crest and kamon of the Tokugawa household) has nothing to do with this particular koshirae.

 

Everything else was already explained except that the metal peg on this type of tsuka is sometimes a screw, not a peg!  Keep that in mind when you try to remove it.

 

Cheers,

Martin

[Geraint]

Just to add to what Martin has said, the peg you need to remove is the one nearest the tsuba, (guard), it may be threaded and it may have a left hand thread.  Not sure how that idea will come across so to explain, a normal thread unscrews anticlockwise, this may unscrew clockwise.  Once you have unscrewed the first part you will need to carefully push out the second part.  Go gently and we look forward to seeing what you find.

 

All the best. 

[pgtortosa]

Disarm = dismantle

Thanks for the clarification mr. administrator

[pgtortosa]

Disarm = dismantle

sorry, thanks for the clarification Brian

[pgtortosa]

Just to add to what Martin has said, the peg you need to remove is the one nearest the tsuba, (guard), it may be threaded and it may have a left hand thread.  Not sure how that idea will come across so to explain, a normal thread unscrews anticlockwise, this may unscrew clockwise.  Once you have unscrewed the first part you will need to carefully push out the second part.  Go gently and we look forward to seeing what you find.

 

All the best. 

Geraint, thanks for the information, I will be very helpful

[pgtortosa]

 

 

Dear Pablo,

I think Marius meant that the aoi-mon(triple hollyhock-crest and kamon of the Tokugawa household) has nothing to do with this particular koshirae.

 

Everything else was already explained except that the metal peg on this type of tsuka is sometimes a screw, not a peg!  Keep that in mind when you try to remove it.

 

Cheers,

Martin

 

Leo, thank you very much for the info.

[pgtortosa]

Good evening dear.

 

First of all, I apologize if this topic does not apply.

Last week I opened one with a consultation, many of you very kindly gave me very useful information and advice.

 

The topic was this

 

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/24258-consultation-help-on-authenticity-of-tachi-tokugawa/

 

 

 

 

But, as they had advised me, I could disarm the sword and take more and better pictures of it.

 

Since I could not find a way to upload them to the previous post, create this new one.

 

I upload the new photos, to see if with them they can give me even more information.

 

I thank you in advance for all the help you are giving me.

 

regards

 

[TheGermanBastard]

Probably kanbun shinto periode shortened

 

no obvious flaws in the blade ... probably a sound blade that somne doing kendo would like.

[PNSSHOGUN]

How long is the blade? Measure it from the tip of the sword to the habaki collar. The shape of it certainly looks like classic Kanbun, but it is so greatly shortened I wonder if it is older.

[TheGermanBastard]

hello John, just looking at the Nagako I believe one might get the impression but looking at the overall Sugata, Kissaki and beef Construction I tend towards Kanbun. Too little Sori for an older piece. At first glance from teh previously provided images I would not have been suprised to see a Meiji or Teisho blade in there and bet on that.

[pgtortosa]

Probably kanbun shinto periode shortened

 

no obvious flaws in the blade ... probably a sound blade that somne doing kendo would like.

 

 

hello John, just looking at the Nagako I believe one might get the impression but looking at the overall Sugata, Kissaki and beef Construction I tend towards Kanbun. Too little Sori for an older piece. At first glance from teh previously provided images I would not have been suprised to see a Meiji or Teisho blade in there and bet on that.

Hello John, Luis.

 

Thanks for your appreciations, I'm going to measure the sword tonight and publish it.

 

have a nice day

[Ken-Hawaii]

First name on all posts, please.

[Brian]

Topics merged.

[pgtortosa]

Topics merged.

Thank you, Brian.

[Chushingura]

Interesting Tokugawa tachi with a straight blade and shortened (twice?)

How did that tachi arrived to Argentina?

Welcome to the Forum and felicitaciones por tan interesante pieza Pablo!

Eduardo

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hello Pablo,

 

First impression agrees with a Kanbun shape, my concern is that I'm not seeing evidence of a hamon. You should look up/search previous discussions on how to view the hamon under lighting and write about your findings. Gracias.

[TheGermanBastard]

 

Interesting Tokugawa tachi with a straight blade and shortened (twice?)

How did that tachi arrived to Argentina?

Welcome to the Forum and felicitaciones por tan interesante pieza Pablo!

Eduardo

 

 

Hello Eduardo, unfortunately NO Tokugawa Tachi it is a Tourist Koshirae.

[pgtortosa]

 

Interesting Tokugawa tachi with a straight blade and shortened (twice?)

How did that tachi arrived to Argentina?

Welcome to the Forum and felicitaciones por tan interesante pieza Pablo!

Eduardo

 

Thank you very much Eduardo.

 

I did not know I was cut twice ...

 

I bought it at an art auction, I understand that it came from a succession

 

Thanks for the info.

 

 

regards

 

Paul

[pgtortosa]

Hello Pablo,

 

First impression agrees with a Kanbun shape, my concern is that I'm not seeing evidence of a hamon. You should look up/search previous discussions on how to view the hamon under lighting and write about your findings. Gracias.

Thank you very much Franco.

 

I will try to read about how to do it and try to see it, if I achieve something I publish it.

 

best regards

[pgtortosa]

How long is the blade? Measure it from the tip of the sword to the habaki collar. The shape of it certainly looks like classic Kanbun, but it is so greatly shortened I wonder if it is older.

Hi John

 

It measures 69 cm, from the tip of the sword to the tip of the necklace habaki.

 

from the tip to the end of the sword are 98 cm

 

Does this say something?

 

greetings and thanks

[pgtortosa]

Hello Eduardo, unfortunately NO Tokugawa Tachi it is a Tourist Koshirae.

Hello

 

then would it be a Tourist Koshirae from the mid-19th century with a Kanbun steel from the 17th century?

 

Should it have been forged in the traditional way?

[J Reid]

Hello

 

then would it be a Tourist Koshirae from the mid-19th century with a Kanbun steel from the 17th century?

 

Should it have been forged in the traditional way?

It could be an old shinto blade with a hamon that has been lost in a fire (so no value) and fitted in appealing modern mounts and sold to a tourist who wouldn't know the difference. It happens...

[Bazza]

ACID WASH IS VERBOTEN - IT ATTACKS THE STEEL AND UNDERMINES IT TO THE POINT WHERE SOMETIMES POLISH IS NOT POSSIBLE, THEREBY DEFEATING THE PURPOSE.

 

A window by a competent, properly trained polisher is the only true way to ascertain the quality of hamon and jigane if you really value your sword.

 

BaZZa.

 

With no apologies whatsoever for "shouting"...

[PNSSHOGUN]

I suggested he simply take it out into the sunlight, usually best idea before gettimg drastic.....