Stephen Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 my bad my mind was on another sword, ill let the mods take over, we don't endorse, amteur polishing so ill leave it too them. it must be that its just a window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAS Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 I am a low volume professional blade smith and polisher working primarily in Japanese style and my work has been seen by a senior polisher with many years of experience on high level nihonto and found to be adequate; I am not soliciting polishing work here. I am primarily self trained and do all work by hand with water stones from Japan. I offered to do the OP a favor without charge; that doesn't make me an " amateur polisher".... amateur polishing is heavily frowned upon by all serious collectors of nihonto, including myself. Please do not let this thread devolve. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 Steve, I would like to begin this post with the understanding that I mean nothing personal by what I am going to say. However, this forum is devoted to the study, appreciation and proper care of the Japanese Sword. It has an obligation to maintain this reputation. To my knowledge, it/we as a whole have never accepted, condoned or encouraged anything less than professional polishing. Unfortunately, and by your own admission, you are a "self trained" polisher, with no formal training. That is the definition of "Amateur Polisher". Polishing modern swords, knives etc., is one thing, Nihonto is something else all together. My fear is that allowing this sort of thing(even if it is merely a window) puts the forum and every member on the edge of a slippery slope towards the degradation of our principles, beliefs and reputations. "Never bend the rules. You bend the rules a little bit and then it's a slippery slope." Thomas Peterffy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAS Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 There are any number of professional polishers who are used by the Nihonto community who did not go to Japan and sit in an uncomfortable position on a togi dai for 10 years. Much respect to those who did. Everybody started somewhere; I did my learning at my own expense on my own creations. I had the privilege on a few occasions of being able to observe and learn from 2 award-winning nihonto polishers in Hawaii to get a baseline for my studies. I have 10 years of hands on and academic study in bladesmithing and polishing as well as several thousands of dollars worth of stones. I am not hanging out a shingle and looking for work, nor seeking your or the NMB's endorsement. Nor am i presenting myself as anything other than I am. Judge as you will, but the process and the result will speak for itself. Does your experience as a sword seller, collector, and knife maker give you the right to define my experience as "amateur"? The sword cuts both ways. (Nothing personal, Ed, but I doubt any of us want to be placed under a microscope) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 Steve and others...I didn't comment because it goes without saying, and we have covered this enough times anyways.There is NO WAY this forum can start a list and decide who is amateur, who is advanced amateur, who is decent but self taught, and who is totally fully trained. The forum position has ALWAYS been no amateur polishing. Trying to debate what that means is pointless, as once again we would be giving opinions without any qualification to back it up. So once again, I ask you to understand that there can be no middle ground here, and I hope you understand that the position taken is to spare people from those amateurs that would ruin blades. That may not be you...but expecting us to take a different opinion in public would be ignoring the reality of what we HAVE to do here, by definition. I'm not saying you won't do a decent job...I'm saying the forum CANNOT take any other line besides caution people against non-traditionally trained polishers. You haven't asked for work, and offered a favour, and I didn't comment. Stephen said what had to be said anyways, which is the official and sensible collector point of view.I consider it addressed now, and hope we can carry on without anyone getting offended. I've seen very decent polishes from people who didn't complete a full apprenticeship myself, but from an official forum point of view, I still may not and can not endorse them officially. Think you will understand the position the forum is in. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAS Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 Indeed. Were i in the position of running the forum, i would not endorse even professional, fully Japanese trained polishers.....THAT would be a slippery slope as well. I fully support your position. Regards, Steve 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 And that my friends is a stand up dude as we say in the underbelly of life 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywifesgunakillme Posted November 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 I am fully supportive of the comments made by both sides. I did enough research on my own to determine that it would not hurt taking Steve up on his offer to uncover a portion of the blade to assist in trying to get a better understanding of the origin of the Katana. The way I viewed it was quite simple. If I didn't take a chance and send it to him, I would never know anything more than what I already know about the blade...which isn't much. And, that bothers me. The blade could be something, or it could be nothing. I think we will all have a better picture here in a few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 Steve, I regret that you have taken my comments as a personal attack, that was not my goal. No need to become defensive, or justify yourself. I did not say that your work was substandard. I have never seen your work, so I do not know how it rates. While only my opinion, I stand firm in the opinion that anyone with no formal training or completely self taught is technically an Amateur. Nor am i presenting myself as anything other than I am. Which was, "I am a professional blade smith and polisher". You apparently missed the point of my post, which was that the NMB as an entity has never, nor should ever condone or encourage such activity. Brian has reiterated my point, agreed with my opinion and others have agreed privately, so it is not an opinion that only I hold. Does your experience as a sword seller, collector, and knife maker give you the right to define my experience as "amateur"? The sword cuts both ways. (Nothing personal, Ed, but I doubt any of us want to be placed under a microscope) It has nothing to do with my experience or your experience, but rather your admitted qualifications or lack thereof. So, while I sincerely regret saying it, yes I see no other way to define it. Make no mistake, I have never made claim to being any kind of expert ! In the field of Nihonto, I am absolutely nothing more than an Amateur ! Again, I do hope you understand the reasoning behind my post and have no hard feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAS Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 PM sent, Ed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROKUJURO Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 GentIemen,I am missing one point in the discussion: Owning Japanese water stones and being able to use them in a traditional way to give a sword a new surface is one thing.The other side of the traditional Japanese TOGI is the knowledge of SUGATA and all other properties of the different schools and makers. The necessary study (in hand!) of so many blades (thousands!) is very probably only possible in Japan, and the guidance of a skilled master over many years as well.Steve may be right when he says that not all Japanese polishers are created equal, but in the whole the risk of damaging a blade ( = altering in one or several of the original aspects and properties) is very probably much less with a fully trained Japanese TOGISHI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywifesgunakillme Posted November 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 I love your sign off" bringing nothing of real value to NMB since 2009". Good laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordGuyJoe Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 Thanks. I only read through the page before this one, so nothing I asked was relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 As Stephen said, all been covered before, there is not going to be a change in forum policy.So can we carry on now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAS Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 I support the wisdom of the moderators and recommend the thread be closed, unless they deem otherwise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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