Saya Construction

[Gordon Sanders]

As many of you know, I am building a Daisho with a dragon and water theme

 

I was thinking of the saya being black gloss with about 4-6 inches at the top wrapped in Black Seasnake

 

 

What do you think?

 

Should I just keep it as basic gloss black or add the leather?

[ROKUJURO]

Gordon,

are you really building a DAISHO or a DAISHO KOSHIRAE? Is this a DIY project or are you having it made by Japanese craftsmen? If this was the case, I think they would tend to use traditional material and decoration.

[Gordon Sanders]

I have the swords, fk, menuki, tsuba. Pablo from unique Japan is my dealer and now it is construction time. I had seen saya with "same" on the upper pet of the saya about 5 inches or so. I had thought since it was water and dragon that a Seasnake skin might be nice instead of the same.

 

Opinions are always good

 

Somewhat like this

[ggil]

If sea-snakes are black, and the rest of the saya is black, won't the finished product not look as interesting as the work could be if using a different colored leather?  What does the sayashi say?  Why not use shark or ray (that isn't black/dyed black), then you get the contrast of the nodules after they are polished down and the spaces filled with black urushi.  with the snake I'm wondering what you are getting from the added costs and labor.  Maybe the spaces between nodules would be filled with another color urushi so the skin would show off?  I just don't know, so sorry for the post if it is just another waste of time, as this would be my norm, or giving out plain old bad info (sorry guys, I have a hard learning path it seems).  One thing is for sure: the idea of creative embellishments on saya is very good, so I hope I'm not discouraging you in your efforts for such. 

 

-Grant

 

Just googled snake saya and this popped up, but im wondering how an already black skin would show off.

[Stephen]

What Hans could do for you, when he gets back up and running

 

https://www.facebook.com/koga.bijutsu/photos/pcb.567182903445404/567181456778882/?type=3&theater

[Kai-Gunto]

Samegawa Is the only thing.

[Fuuten]

I think the main thing here is some like to do things authentic, i suppose most craftsmen like the known styles, and learn to recreate them to keep them alive. Then again, nothing stops you from doing what you want:) and you never know just how things will turn out, it does seem more risky. I think the upper part in the picture you added looks nice, i also like entire saya being done like that. I think it mainly comes down to you taking the risk and doing something that you feel will be the right thing, depending on your view of things I'd say go for what you envisioned Takes a while but personally it was so worth it.

[Shogun8]

As many of you know, I am building a Daisho with a dragon and water theme

 

I was thinking of the saya being black gloss with about 4-6 inches at the top wrapped in Black Seasnake

 

image.jpeg

 

What do you think?

 

Should I just keep it as basic gloss black or add the leather?

I like the idea of adding your own personal aesthetic touch. It sounds like it could be a very interesting, subtle and elegant touch to add the black seasnake to provide a contrasting texture to the gloss of the urushi.

 

I often like to work with the restorer/craftsman to "personalize" items that are being restored, by employing unique colour combinations, finishes, etc.. Since armour is my primary interest, it's fun to specify odoshi patterns, urushi finishes, etc. when restoration is required - as long as one remains true to the piece and period in question by employing appropriate (traditional) techniques, materials and aesthetic cues. I'm sure these tenets hold true for nihonto as well.

[Kam A]

I occasionally get requests for this type of garish type of work  and my usual reply is a straight no.  Using any material that was taken from a living creature that does not serve a primary practical function is not something that seems sensible and maybe just ostentatious . Yes traditionally it was done on the rare occasion and some may have used things as Tiger tails etc to show status etc but the end result is an over the top Koshirae that served little function than to stroke the ego. Maybe consider one of the many options available (lit in the 100s) that is more responsible to our current environmental times and more in the vein of the enlightened warrior. I realise this post may get some a little ruffled but I have thick skin and I am happy to hear a counter argument.

 

I will also point out that collectors and enthusiasts need to research whom they get work through, I have more re-work coming my way than ever before, mostly poorly done shirasaya and Koshirae work due to amateur or just sloppy craftsmanship often coming from some popular and oddly recommended sources. Unfortunately some of this work also contains some big name blades that have a less than satisfactory polish job that could bring tears to the most cynical hardened collector. . . . and it is all reportedly coming from Japan????. These can not be by professional craftsman. I recently saw a Daisho that had received some online attention. In the flesh I was surprised at how terrible it was (not to mention cost). The Lacquer work appeared as if it was spraypainted (sposed to be ishime). The 2 saya were that bad that the blades would twist and rub as it was removed or inserted. The tsukamaki was uneven, and even had raised sections on the mune and ha sides. The polish was worse than I had seen on most amateur jobs. I dont even know how to describe it but suffice to say the only thing that looked remotely traditional was the poorly done Hadori, otherwise it just had this shiny translucent look. There are so many more examples but you get the idea. In this case you dont always get what you pay for

 

 

Kam

[Shogun8]

Good point about endangered species - the use of which I would not ever condone.

[Jim P]

Hi Kam, IMHO. Your observations are correct, I think part of the problem is some don't know enough to pick the difference between passable and excellent work. I know I am still learning but know enough to do my homework

[Gordon Sanders]

Thanks for the feed back.  

 

Did anyone get a chance to attend this?  I wonder how extreme the koshirae was in the Edo period.

 

"In the relatively stable era of the Edo period (1603-1867), elaborately designed swords and Koshirae (sword-mountings) emerged outside of those designs officially determined. These swords and mountings became crafted rather, according to the preference of the owner which allowed for freedom from convention. Developed as special personal items reflecting their owner's social class, financial strength, and education, they also incorporated a sense of the four seasons. Elaborate, elegant and spectacular blade patterns were preferred, swords becoming more decorative items that were embellished with dragons or stylized sword patterns etc. 

 

Koshirae (sword-mountings) are composed of the tsuka (a handle), menuki (ornaments on the tsuka), tsuba (a hand guard), kozuka (a decorative handle fitting), kogai (a small knife-like object that was inserted into the hilt of Japanese sword), and saya (a wooden scabbard). These parts incorporate a diversity of themes such as seasonal plants, animals or themes related to historical events, and the subtlety of how they are combined is one fascinating aspect of appreciating Japanese swords. These accouterments and scabbards are exquisitely made with superb metal carving, gold lacquering, and mother-of-pearl craftsmanship; masterpieces on a tiny ‘canvas’. 

 

A man’s personal items such as the inro (a case for holding small objects) and netsuke (miniature carving attached to the end of a cord hanging from a pouch) were also crafted decoratively. Inro and netsuke of innovative, original design were crafted with abundant use of precious materials such as gold, silver, gems, and ivory representing the owner's fancies in an essential way. 

 

In this exhibition, on display are approximately 100 items selected from the museum collection; a collection renowned for its variety of gorgeous koshirae and accouterments dating from the end of the Edo through to the Meiji period.

[Stephen]

It was talked about on the board.

[Gordon Sanders]

Thanks Stephen,  after searching I see where there were conversations about DANDYISM and a mention of the Show...

 

But  .. did not see any show reports.  

 

I couldnt find any pictures of the exhibits online either.

[Kam A]

Hey Jim

 

Yes we all continue to learn and what I may have felt to be true 5 years ago I may now know more and therefore my opinion and knowledge adjust to reflect this. As a craftsman I think I have continuously adjusted what I feel to be new levels of quality and am never really satisfied with my own work as something will always come along and challenge my perceptions on what I would consider exceptional work.

 

 

Kam