Please Help With Sword Identification - Presumed Military

[wieble]

Hi there,

 

I recently came into posession of a (presumed Japanese) sword. I was wondering is anyone could help me identify a year or perhaps where this sword came from?

 

I posted on another forum and they suspected it was a fake. I am honestly not bothered if this sword is fake or not, as it was handed down to me so has sentimental value regardless of its authenticity.

 

Below are some pictures and a video of the sword.

 

 

Pics: http://imgur.com/a/DMe3A

 

Video: https://vimeo.com/157847736?utm_source=email&utm_medium=vimeo-cliptranscode-201504&utm_campaign=28749

 

I have tried to do my own research (I didnt want to just come on here and take the lazy route), but I am completely new to all this and it is all very confusing :S I am not even sure which way up the sig is supposed to be?

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

Wieble

 

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Wieble,

The video is too small for me to see the signature on the sword well enough to answer the question.  Post a larger pic and I'm sure you'll get an answer.  In the mean time, make sure there is a pin in the hole through the handle and tang of the sword.  Without the pin the blade can slide down inside the scabbard and break its point.

What I can see looks right.

Grey

[wieble]

Thanks Grey!

 

Yeah I had just taken the pin thing out so i could easily show in the video. It is back in now.

 

Ill sort out a larger picture...

 

Thanks

[Bruce Pennington]

So far, it looks like a real WWII army officer sword (shin gunto). I can't decipher swordsmith names, but the date should be on the other side. The writing is read with the blade pointed up and the tang hanging down.

 

The tassel is unusual. There were no red and blue combinations. Should be brown and blue (company grade officer)

[wieble]

I'll have a look for the date now... 

 

You have all been so helpful so far! I'm very thankful!

 

I also have a dagger that i got with it, but unsure if it has any relation to the sword.

[Shugyosha]

Hi Wieble,

 

You could post a picture - we like looking at swords  .

 

Best,

John

[wieble]

You can find some pictures of it here:

 

http://imgur.com/a/DMe3A

[wieble]

And here are some pictures of the dagger. I dont think they are related as the scabbard (I really do apologise if that is the wrong word for the sheath) is made of a different material.

 

http://imgur.com/a/0Tars

[Kronos]

Echizen Kuni Kanenori I believe.

 

越前國兼則

[Stephen]

 

 

KANENORI (兼則), 3rd gen. Echizen, 1st gen. Kaga, Kanbun (寛文, 1661-1673), Echizen/Kaga – “Kanenori” (兼則), “Echizen Ichijō-jū Kanenori” (越前一乗兼則), “Echizen no Kuni-jū Kanenori” (越前国住兼則), “Etchū no Kuni-jū Kanenori” (越中国住兼則), 

 

tsuba i interesting, is the white a inlay cloisonne?? as in baked on...would like to see more. 

 

Above is one of the Kanenori, yours may be a different gen. 

[Brian]

Dagger is Japanese military. I know nothing about them, but we have guys here who will tell you all about it. Not sure if it could house a handmade blade or not.

[Kai-Gunto]

And here are some pictures of the dagger. I dont think they are related as the scabbard (I really do apologise if that is the wrong word for the sheath) is made of a different material.

 

http://imgur.com/a/0Tars

Navy dirk.

[wieble]

Thanks Kai-Gunto! Have just been googling that thank to you and have found information. Thanks!

 

Thank Kronos for the Echizen Kuni Kanenori comment. It does look like that sig

 

So what should I have done with these items? I want them to be preserved in the states they are in, but I know that a lot of the time cleaning items like these can actually degrade them somewhat.

 

Could anyone suggest or give me tip of how to care for these things? The last thing I want to do is make a cardinal sin without realising it?

[Stephen]

see James posted at same time

oh well hes got it now

 

so you have a older blade taken to war...blade pix please

[wieble]

Stephen, I'm so sorry, I actually didnt see all that information you posted below the picture (the right way around). I thought it was your sig!! Thats amazing!

 

Just about to post some pics of the blade. It is very shiny but looks like someone may have tried to sharpen it at some point :S

[Stephen]

Your on the right track, your asking before jumping in and (fixing) ...lol it yourself,  dont forget the tsuba pix of the white,

[wieble]

Here are pics of the blade:

 

http://imgur.com/a/rDJKV

 

There is some sort of oil on it, i assume to try and preserve it. It dosnt strike me as hand made by looking at it, but what do I know?

 

Also, with regards to the tsuba... that is just centuries of dust... it is the gold colour like the tirimming. As I mentioned above, I dont want to clean this with the incorrect technique so have not touched anything on it yet apart from take the handle off to see the sig.

[Stephen]

yep GIs covered it with all sorts of stuff, lucky you its not rusted out. 

 

ooops or goop off will clean it off, or pure alcohol, be careful more than a few new owners have been bit, and blood does nasty things to steel just as your fingerprints will if you dont remove them, they will come off with the cleaning.

wipe from the tang to tip changing the cloth fold not to put crud back on the blade. a light oil for now wiping ALL finger prints body acids dont sleep. Maybe just send it to me for some TLC...., youll get it back....lol 

[Stephen]

missed your statement....IT is hand forged many many years ago, worthy of preservation. 

[wieble]

oh wow! That has surprised me!!! pretty incredible craftsmanship!!

 

I think maybe i will look into having is preserved properly then... Any companies you would recommend? I am in the UK

 

You have been so helpful Stephen! And thanks to everyone else who has spared time on my new possessions :D

[Stephen]

mates across the pond can update you on that, dont forget to rid them prints, ive seen them stain over a days time.

[wieble]

I dont have any pure alcohol or the stuff you recommended. Anything household I could use on it now do you think? Maybe even just wiping with dry paper towels??

[Stephen]

wife? finger nail polish remover?

if nothing just oil well making sure your not rubbing any crud up and down the blade.

[wieble]

Oh yes of course! Thanks a lot, Ill get them off now! :D

[Brian]

Pharmacy -> ethyl alcohol

[Stephen]

Make sure its  pure acetone 

[Kronos]

The best thing to use is Isopropyl Alcohol (99%) although I found it a bit tough to get here in the UK outside the internet but Maplins does it I believe. Then just wipe with a lint free cloth and follow it up with a very light coat of oil. Don't do anything to the tang.

[wieble]

Thanks Kronos,

 

I'll see if I can order some in. That is useful that you can perhaps get it at maplin.

 

Now to do some research into Echizen Kuni Kanenori...

[Geraint]

Dear Oliver,

 

Just before anyone else reminds you please sign your posts with your name, you can add it in your profile.

 

Just to recap, what you have is a shingunto mount from WWII containing what seems to be an earlier blade in fairly good condition.  Already this makes it interesting, though as has been said the tassel looks off.  Not to worry about that because your other dagger is a naval dirk, also in fairly good condition but it seems to have two sword tassels fixed to the suspension rings.  If the braids and in a pair of tassels with a barrel knot then that seems to be what you have.  Even the tassels are now of interest to those who have a sword without one.

 

Really wise to resit the urge to clean until you can get some advice, if all else fails some light machine oil rubbed over the blades with soft tissue, thin coat mind you, will keep them in good shape.  Not sure where you are in the UK, I'm in far south west if that helps otherwise look up either the Northern Token Society or the Token Society of Great Britain.

 

Two have two military swords in one go is great going, take care my friend, you might have to start a collection!

 

All the best.

[wieble]

apologies for the lack of signeture, I think this is fixed now.

 

Well I am hoping to start a collection of WWII items as I am a teacher by trade and have an interest in that era, and even better to have artefacts for them to look at (but not touch haha) that were really from that period of time. Who knows how this collection may grow!!