Menuki Shishi

[Gunome]

Hello

 

This is a shakudo menuki with inlay for the eyes.

My guess is that it is a goto school menuki from the Edo period.

Is it a correct attribution ?

 

Thanks

 

Sebastien

[Brian]

There are supposedly "secret" signs of Goto shisi, including angles in the tail and indentations etc.

I think a lot of the articles are in Japanese, and I don't have a list of them. I don't see anything specific here that points to Goto though.

 

Brian

[Gunome]

Thanks for your reply Brian,

any idea of the school that could have product these menuki ?

[Ian]

I think this is part of what Brian was referring to? 

[b.hennick]

Does anyone have a translation that will go with those images? I would love to learn more about those secret marks.

[Gunome]

Me too

[cabowen]

They apply to Yujo primarily.

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hello

 

 

My guess is that it is a goto school menuki from the Edo period.

Is it a correct attribution ?

 

Thanks

 

Sebastien

 

 

Not Goto style imo, look to other schools.

[Pete Klein]

Hi Sebastien -- please take a look at these menuki of 'Shi Shi' papered to Goto (NBTHK Hozon) and then compare them to the ones you posted:

 

 

Here is a link to Shi Shi menuki by Goto Sojo:  http://www.nihonto.com/8.4.14.html

 

They are of gold but that doesn't matter.  Take care to look at the depths of carving, the thickness of the metal plate and especially look at the back side to see the depth and finish of the inside.  These are all important in discerning Goto work.  The mainline Goto family were purveyors to the Shogun so what they did had to be of highest quality. 

 

As for those, 'secret marks' yes, they do exist but need to be viewed from a greater context.  This book:  http://www.japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/books/b723-kokusai-tosogu-kai-2nd-convention#

contains the translation to the remarks made here:

http://www.japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/books/b718-sengoku-busho-no-yosoi-sano-museum

 

Kengo Sekido (now most unfortunately deceased) went over many of these marks in his comments.  Those old books are almost untranslatable as they use a variant form of earlier Japanese but the salient points have been mentioned in the Sekido translation.  You can get more from just buying the big Fukushi sensei book on Goto and a good magnifying glass to go over the pictures.  It's all in the carving and the techniques by which the iro-e was accomplished.

 

I hope this is of assistance.

[Gunome]

Thanks all for your replies.

 

I naively thought that shishi menuki are a theme of the goto school and do not thought that others schools did it also.

Do you have an idea of which school had produced shishi theme ?

 

Thanks

 

Sébastien

[Brian]

All of them 

 

Very common theme. Everything from unknown small craftsmen and mass produced pressed junk up to top level stuff.

Kantei by theme is unfortunately a dead end.

 

Brian

[Darcy]

The chart is Teijo in the little inset on the upper left, and then everything else is Yujo that I can see anyway, including the larger bit above the small inset.