Tsuba enigma

[kissakai]

Hi

I quite liked this basic tsuba. The dimpled effect shown on the enlargement is effective

I suppose it is one that can not be assigned to a school apart from the Shoami catch all option and around 1850

I thought the design was similar to a Japanese path but just a guess

I'd appreciate any comments re school/style and the design

What really intrigued me was the fade marks on the box!

How long it was in the previous owner possession

To be fade I'd assume the box was left open so it was on display

I know how eagled eyed some of you are but the stamp must be beyond anyone’s interpretation unless someone has seen it before

 

 

 

 

 

 

Grev UK

[ROKUJURO]

Grev,

 

I cannot add any idea to the design of this TSUBA, but the TAGANE around the NAKAGO-ANA show a strange form. The metal seems to have broken and did not react as usual. Are you sure it is not cast?

[kissakai]

Hi Jean

I looked at all the internal faces and no sign of a die line

The mimi seems to show the surface best and it looks OK to me

I understand about the material concerns

Although some material is missing there is material that has folded in

Has anyone a tsuba box with the faded area as I'm wondering how long it may have been in this box

 

 

Grev UK

[Soshin]

Hi Grev UK,

 

Check on eBay. There is a Japanese seller (eBay ID# yumi3go55) that sells vintage and used boxes. He always has similar old boxes with such outlines in them. I have purchase some of the older boxes in the past that were in good condition.

 

Here are three examples.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WOODEN-BOX-for-TSUBA-etc-USED-gi167-/291263904951?pt=Asian_Antiques&hash=item43d0ae7cb7

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WOODEN-BOX-for-TSUBA-USED-KIRI-gi171-/291264744384?pt=Asian_Antiques&hash=item43d0bb4bc0

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WOODEN-BOX-for-TSUBA-USED-KIRI-gi184-/351195954322?pt=Asian_Antiques&hash=item51c4e8fc92

 

 

[sarcasm] Yes I do find old used vintage tosogu boxes more interesting then the current tsuba being discussed. [/scarcasm]

[kissakai]

Hi David

What ever floats your boat

The tsuba is no beauty queen but OK for me

I've never looked for old boxes so the links were good to see

The first one was very similar (1940's) but I'd like to think this box was a little older

At one time I didn't think I'd even get a reply

 

Grev

[Grey Doffin]

I think because the fade marks in the box match the tsuba there's little reason to doubt this is anything other than what it is supposed to be. Doesn't look faked or cast; I think it's a 200 year old tsuba.

But what do I know? Grey

[Pete Klein]

I would agree with Grey, not cast but not really old as there appears to be insufficient rust inside the sukashi for it to be, say from early Edo. Looks to be wakizashi size. From the shape of the seppa dai and the design I would imagine it would be placed in the 'Shoami' mélange. The nakago ana was resized at some point with sekigane added which resulted in the weird tagane. The sekigane have since been lost/removed. If you look into those tagane you will see some rust which is probably from the loss of patina when the sekigane were added which allowed some fine rust to form. The lack of ume (soft metal 'slides') in the hitsu ana lead me to believe this was not used with higher quality accessories (if any at all) as they were not awarded any extra protection from abrasion. The box looks to be old, but not all that old. The discoloration is most likely from the item being in a shop display case with window light hitting it for a number of years. I would imagine the tsuba has some play with the box 'nakago' attachment as you can see subtle changes in the fabric discoloration as if the tsuba laid in slightly different positions over time.

 

BTW, I believe the correct orientation of the stamp is this as you can see two numbers at the bottom right:

 

[kissakai]

Hi Grey/Pete

Some very interesting points from both of you

Pete observations seem particularly spot on and shows me that I should look a bit closer next time

 

 

Grev

[Brian]

Great "review" by Pete.

 

Brian

[Jean]

Sherlock Pete

[Soshin]

Hi David

What ever floats your boat

The tsuba is no beauty queen but OK for me

 

 

Hi Grev,

 

Felt a little sorry for my sarcasm. Working on your museum cataloging project now. Wish me luck!