has anyone heard of this swordsmith?

[nihonto ken korekuta]

Hi, I have a traditionally made WW2 era sword in type 3 mountings I bought a year ago or so. the blade is star stamped (no showa /arsenal stamp) and the seller says it was made by takeshita hirokuni. I thought when I bought it I checked out this smith and although hard to find he was listed in the rikugun jumei tosho list of smiths. But today I double checked this sword and the only smith I could find who was rikugun jumei tosho and had a similar name was takeshita yusukuni .

Does anyone know if there actually was a army approved smith named takeshita hirokuni? the seller said it was a rare smith, but now I'm thinking he may have been rare cause he never existed haha. (mistake in translation)

The sword is great though and I have no regrets. Can anyone give me any info?

Im going to open a new topic to have the mei read correctly soon when I work out how to up load the photos.

Thanks.

Andy.W

[Stephen]

a picture of the mei will let us know what you have for starts.

[Geraint]

Hi Andy,

 

In the meantime have a look at the sword in this thread, second image. http://www.nihontomessageboard.com/nmb/ ... =15&t=8923

[k morita]

Hi,

There were 2 RJT sword smith,family name Takeshita.竹 下

 

Takeshita Sukemitsu (祐 光)　in Okayama prefecture.

Takeshita Yasukuni (泰 国)　　in Hakodate,Hokkaido prefecture.

[nihonto ken korekuta]

Ok thanks guys, I've been trying to get some photos to upload so hopefully it works this time. Thanks for the link Geraint, I'm not great in translating mei and comparing it sometimes but from what I could see it look different in a spot and also the hamon is different compared to my blade. Hopefully these photos will upload now. If it works I will add a few more to show comparisons.

 

Andy.w

[cabowen]

Looks like Takeshita Hirokuni 竹下宏国

 

Any photos of the blade? Looks nicely made.

[nihonto ken korekuta]

Here is a couple of photos of the hamon.

 

Andy.W

[nihonto ken korekuta]

Hi Chris, hmm that's what the seller said, takeshita hirokuni but I cant find any info on this maker. the seller said he was a rare smith, not much work of his around/ if any cause ive never seen another.

??? really weird.

Also there is kanji on the dated side of the tang next to the number 84, im not sure what that says, maybe manufacturing related? I was told the dated side of the tang translates to May 1943.

It just seams bizarre to me that who ever made this sword was very capable but the maker is not known. Maybe a mistake in the mei ? the star stamp and everything is genuine and I had the impression before that I found this smith in rikugun jumei tosho list but it wasn't in another list I looked in. Now I cant find him anywhere. Sorry for the photos of the blade, doesn't show everything.

 

Andy.W

[cabowen]

Please compare your blade signed Takeshita Hirokuni to one signed by Takeshita Yasukuni. I think you will see that they are by the same hand. Nakago is also the same shape.

 

Sometimes smiths took a different name when working for the military. I believe that is the case here. In my opinion, Takeshita Yasukuni and Takeshita Hirokuni are the same smith. He worked in Hokkaido and was a good smith.

 

Your sword:

 

Takeshita Yasukuni:

[nihonto ken korekuta]

Hi Chris, you may be right. I thought that it could be a possibility that the sword smith used a different name. The nakago looks similar, I'm not too sure about the mei and the different Hamons ive seen before but I'm no expert. Could have had several different scribers engrave the mei for the RJT too. I guess without comparing the blades in person or without complete photos there would be no way to be 100% sure.

I guess I will keep my eye out for another sword similarly signed to see if this happened more than once but I havnt seen another yet.

I will add some more complete photos of the sword and koshirae so if anyone see's this link in the future and can confirm this or find another signed the same.

 

Can anyone please translate the kanji next to the 84 stamp on the date side? and also I'm just curious if the date says a lucky day in may 1943 or just a day in may 1943?

Merry Christmas All and thankyou for your help.

 

Andy.W

[loiner1965]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/136890269/Rikugun-Jumei-Tosho

your smith is here

[cabowen]

Rikugun Tosho were required to sign their own blades. No doubt in my mind that your blade is signed and made by Takeshita Yasukuni.

[nihonto ken korekuta]

Ok cheers, I've added some photos for future reference or if anyone see's a similar sword by that smith with the same mei. Thanks for all your help, its much appreciated.

 

Andy.W

[runagmc]

Looks nice for a Gendaito in type 3 mounts from those pics.

[nihonto ken korekuta]

Hi Adam, yeah its a really nice sword in original polish. The better swords in type 3 mounts were dark brown like this mount. I have a theory that it belonged to a higher ranking officer and was handed in on surrender. From what I've seen the higher ranking officers swords were more often in better condition or near mint condition (maybe lack of use or maybe they were taken better care of because they were higher quality gendaito). And Star stamped swords made traditionally were more often reserved for the higher ranking officers. I believe there are signs this may have had a tassel at one stage but was removed like many during surrender. But there is no way of knowing any of this for sure without knowing its history.

Either way I'm happy with it cause its getting harder to find them in this condition and time will only add to that.

[cabowen]

Very nice indeed.

 

Here is a shot of blade signed Takeshita Yasukuni. As you can see, he was a very talented smith. I would place him in the hidden treasure category.

 

[george trotter]

Hey Chris and Andy,

on the matter of unknown RJT mei...and a RJT using different mei for various reasons...I was under the impression that this may be the case of when making a private order versus when making a RJT gunto, but, as usual I am partly right-partly wrong.

Looking in my own research file (duuuh...why didn't I do that first?) for RJT Yamagami Munetoshi, I find that I have recorded two mei for him...he used one "Toshi" in civilian gunto sword signing (see oshi pic) and carried it over into RJT sword signing in 1943, but part way through 1943 he started to use a different "Toshi" exclusively for RJT gunto (see pic). I only have the last in RJT but have also seen star stamped mei of the first one.

So, it is possible to find his star stamped swords with Munetoshi signed both ways.

I expect it is the same for other smiths also...such as Hirokuni and Yasukuni....and also that other unknown RJT? mei you were discussing recently Chris of the Kato school...Masamichi?

Hope this helps,

[Stephen]

where is this sword now? the Hirokuni?

 

[Bruce Pennington]

@Stephen thanks from bringing this thread up!  This blade is stamped with the katakana "Ho" which is one I don't have in the database!  We need (ok, I need) to find out what prefecture Hirokuni worked in.  Japaneseswordindex.com lists a "Ikusa no Kajitsu Hisakuni", but is "Kajitsu" a different Hisakuni than Takeshita?  @george trotter any ideas?  They do list, as stated above, that Takeshita Yasukuni was RJT.  Does anyone know the prefecture for Yasukuni?

[Kiipu]

35 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Does anyone know the prefecture for Yasukuni?

 

Yes, 泰國 [Yasukuni] lived in the City of Hakodate, Hokkaidō [北海道].  His real name is 竹下･猛.

[Kiipu]

On 12/23/2013 at 6:13 PM, nihonto ken korekuta said:

Also there is kanji on the dated side of the tang next to the number 84, I'm not sure what that says, maybe manufacturing related?

I was told the dated side of the tang translates to May 1943.

 

It is the katakana character ホ.  It is thought that these markings are association or arsenal related.  See this post by Bruce and my reply that follows.

Arsenal Mark on RJT sword Fittings, Post #103

 

The blade is dated using the legendary founding of Japan in 660 BC.

皇紀二千六百三年五月日 = A day in May 1943.

 

Below are the markings on the other side of the tang.

竹下宏國作之

[Bruce Pennington]

1 hour ago, Kiipu said:

Hokkaidō

That would fit, as all of these katakana marked blades are north of Tokyo. We have not found any marked this way in the south of Japan..