Quick Goto Question

[Curran]

I was looking at a set of rather mediocre looking menuki.

Had very old papers saying 傍後藤

 

This isn't a goto school I recognize.

I put it through my translator and it came back as "Pong-Goto".

 

Please don't laugh, but is this simply the kanji for 'Waki' as in Waki-Goto?

[John A Stuart]

Yes 傍後藤 an alternative form of Waki-Goto like 脇後藤 John

[k morita]

Hi,

傍後藤(Waki GOTO) means "Branches of the Goto school".

[Curran]

Thank you to both of you.

 

I still could use some clarification.

(1) I have a set of nice Goto menuki with recent NBTHK papers that say 脇後藤

(2) I am also looking at a set of menuki with old NBTHK papers that say 傍後藤

 

Both have the same meaning as "Waki Goto"? One is not more favorable than the other?

Waki Goto is a very casual term in the west for anything looking remotely Goto.

 

The old set is practically Kyoto junk, whereas the NBTHK set looks like Kaga Goto work.

I am surprised it wasn't given specifically to Kaga Goto.

Even respective of the age difference of the papers, it is hard to believe these two different sets of menuki share the same 'classification'.

[cabowen]

Both kanji are used for what, as far as I know, is the same meaning.

[Curran]

Thanks....

 

that is killer in that 2 pieces of high level goto side school work I have seen in the last 24 hours get lumped in with hood ornament level 'Waki-goto' level work.

 

NBTHK Hozon papers slay me more and more with what they don't say these days.

Of recent papers, I've seen a 3rd gen Hayashi Tohachi tsuba given 'Hayashi' Hozon, and a another Nishigaki work simply called 'Higo' Hozon. Dumbing down to minimal effort at the Hozon level.

I'm aware of the issues several of the advanced Higo collectors have with the NBTHK Hozon papers, but hope it isn't spreading to non Higo.

 

Forgive the minor rant.

Even with the Yen weakening, it is difficult to justify the expense of such milktoast NBTHK Hozon papers.

[John A Stuart]

I think neither is more indicative of quality than the other as well. 脇 meaning side as in wakizashi 脇差 and 傍 meaning side as in wakimi 脇見 I also agree that there should be a better attribution than just Waki-Goto, at least a branch proposition if not specific artist. It is a rather researched group of artists. John

[Pete Klein]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15350&p=134790&hilit=goto#p134790

 

This might help a bit. 'Waki' and 'Kyo' Goto are equivalents. Here is the book on Kyo Goto: http://www.japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.c ... oto-shigeo

 

No hood ornaments here. Kyo Goto work is very good. What I believe you are missing is addressed in the above link as papers are based upon level of certainty. If a peice cannot be proven (at least with great certainty) to a specific maker then it gets the next lower rank.

[Curran]

Peter,

 

Thank you. I remember reading that long ago.

It was such an excellent write-up by you that I printed it out and placed with my Goto books.

 

Unfortunately, my Goto books are in storage for the summer-

I should have remembered this write-up.

I'll send you a PM later about a Goto piece that I have been studying.

[Brian]

Must get that added to the FAQ this weekend. Slipped my mind.

 

Brian