translation of mei please help

[armsandarmor]

Hello,

 

This is my first Japanese blade, not an expensive one but I would like to learn everything I can from it; and I am learning everything I can about Nihonto. I tried to find these characters in the books that I recently purchased but have not had any luck. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also this is my first post to the forum and would like to post more pictures of the rest of the Nihonto to get academic input on its type and style, if for no other reason than to verify what I have researched (if I could be so naive as to ask which forum to post the rest of the blade that information would be appreciated). I have three books, "The Connoisseur's Book of Japanese Swords" by Kokan Nagayama, "The Samurai Sword" by John M. Yumoto and "Japanese Sword Blades" by Alfred Dobree but I could not match the characters to those in the books. I hope I did not miss them. these three characters are the only ones present. Thank you for looking.

 

[mywei]

貞 正

sada masa

 

 

Sadamasa ?saku

 

koto?

 

Matt

[ROKUJURO]

Edward,

 

I can't read the first KANJI, but the other two might be MASATSUGU. From the condition of the NAKAGO I would guess it's a KOTO blade.

[armsandarmor]

Thank you for the information, that's a great place to start. Here are some more pictures of the sword assembled. The Hamon is barely visible and very straight. I thought it was from 1880s-1920s make but I know nothing about these and the individual I got it from knew nothing either. If it is several hundred years old then maybe I should have it professionally cleaned and polished to fix some of the issues with it. It would be interesting to discover the smith if possible or the forge that made it. I am not sure the sword parts all belong to the blade, everything seems either too loose or too tight to belong to it. But the blade is the most important. I will take apart the sword and get better pictures of the blade/signature to post later. The Tsuba seems very old and has little in the way of detail except when the light is just right there is a smooth diamond/snake scale pattern covering it. It is cast iron. I made a new pin from bamboo to replace the old one, it was broken in two and crumbling from age. some of the round "pearls" have come off from around the pin (not by me). there is some rust/pitting to the blade, some very fine cuts into the edge, and one "chip" or flake has come off the side. I will post more pictures soon.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[armsandarmor]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stephen]

if it were me id bone or burnish the rust on the kissaki, least until the red is gone, then oil it well.

[runagmc]

Not to argue with Oya-bun :D (as I don't think there's anything wrong with his suggestion), but if you just make sure it stays oiled, I don't think the corrosion will progress. Crushing the rust from such a delicate part of the sword may be difficult for someone who might not have any experience doing this kind of stuff... just a thought...

[armsandarmor]

I put a light coat of oil on the blade and let it sit a minute which took off the top layer of rust, I wiped that off, re-oiled, wiped it down again, talcum powdered the blade, wiped that off and then put a thin layer of renaissance wax over it (everywhere I read online was that renn wax wont damage anything, just preserve and prevent any rust from forming until I get it professionally polished or decide to leave it and renn wax is what the British Museum puts on all of its Nihonto which are far more valuable than my house, let alone my sword).

 

Is this sword really from the 15-1600's? Ill get some more pictures of just the blade by itself, maybe some better light/angles on the signature.

[J Reid]

The blade looks to have some pretty nasty kizu on it in a couple places. I don't think you should polish it. For the $2600+ it would cost to polish and put in shirasaya you could invest in another purchase of an already mint blade. The fuchi-kashira and menuki are a set though. I would rip those babies off and put them in a box. I think if this sword is of "sentimental" value to you then a shirasaya, and if you must, a "touch up polish" to bring out some features a bit more would cost about $1000.

[Stephen]

two things the Kissaki can handle some light rubing, didnt advise to take a hammer to it...and as far as them babies...the fitting are not top grade just standard pre war...leave everything as is ...dont know about the wax but sure some pros will let us know if thats ok...you have a old sword with history and it should be left alone now that you have oil on the red rust.

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Edward,

I think the wax was a mistake and if possible to remove without damaging the blade I would do so. Here is a link to a care and etiquette brochure that shows how best to preserve your sword:

http://www.nbthk-ab.org/Etiquette.htm

Nothing that isn't mentioned in the brochure should be done to the sword, except by those with proper training.

I agree: given the defects in the blade the cost of a polish isn't warranted. If you continue to study and collect Nihonto the time will come to move on from this sword and you'll be glad you don't have more money in it.

Grey

[armsandarmor]

the wax will come off easily with a little oil, i will get a sword cleaning kit and take care of it that way. i could always use the sword as a parts sword should i need anything later, ide like to get 2 or 3 Nihonto and it would be nice to have a mint art sword with paperwork; granted that would cost a little more than this sword did this blade has no sentimental value aside from it being mine and a great piece of history.

[Brian]

It is missing, and needs, seppa.

 

Brian

[armsandarmor]

Yes that would help take slack out of the tsuba as it is loose. Thanks for pointing that out, Ill find one.

[ROKUJURO]

Edward,

 

better find two SEPPA!

 

The FUKURE is not very pretty, but you can only make a decision for or against a polish after a trained polisher has had the blade in hand (or at least seen it). Sometimes a professional TOGISHI can work wonders! On the other hand a defect like this can prove to be quite deep and an improvement is then impossible.

[armsandarmor]

Here are some more pictures

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stephen]

looks like upper part of the Nakago was shaved ...for what? maybe a new mount?...possible Dotannuki Masatsugu...others will chime in.

[armsandarmor]

For some reason that is not visible when holding/looking at it. I lightly photo shopped these last pictures to bring out brightness/saturation/contrast/detail and it does look like it has been taken down, although it would've been done a long time ago as the patina seems more or less uniform. I found a local man who will look at the sword for me, he is apparently a bit of an expert on sword blade mei and Japanese characters so I will post what he says at some point. He works with my wife so in the next day or two I will hear from him.

[Stephen]

i was hoping to wake up to other members helping on this, surely someone has a thought on the mei and what it could have been.

[mywei]

is there a reason for the nakago with the mei to be noticeably thicker than the rest of the nakago?

[Stephen]

Matt, im thinking it was shaved, for what reason im not sure, i know Koichi san likes a good mystery, was hoping he or Morita sama would help out.

[k morita]

Hi all,

 

The following is my guess:

How about Mihara(kai mihara) school in Bingo province "---- kai Masa somethig" 貝 正 X

They used their mei " Mihara ju nin kai somethig somethig"

[Stephen]

Morita san thank you for your input, was sure last kanji was tsugu....Bungo sword...himm somethig to look into i guess.

[k morita]

Hi, :D

Not Bungo sword.

Bingo(Hiroshima prefecture now) sword.

[Stephen]

my error, please forgive, typo. Gomennasai

[mywei]

hmm interesting...

 

it seems most of the Kai Mihara smiths' names started with 'masa'

[Veli]

Kai Masasuke ...貝正佐?

 

Hawley MAS943

(Bishu Mihara ju) Kai Masasuke (saku)

 

Veli

[armsandarmor]

ok here is what my wife's co-worker came up with, which is really close to my own more recent research and the input already gained from this thread.

 

this is from his email:

 

 

The first character is most likely one of the following three characters: the name kanji usually pronounced "sada" (貞), the character meaning "look, see, view" (見), or the character for shellfish, usually pronounced "kai" (貝) (sorry, I'm not sure whether or not you can read those characters.) The second is fairly clear and appears to be the kanji for justice or correctness (正). The third is very muddy, but could possibly be the character for "made by" (作), a character used in names that is commonly pronounced "tsugu" (次), or even the characters for "right (side)" (右) or name characters pronounced "suke" (佑 or 祐.) Sadly that doesn't give too many clues as to what it could be: the name of the period, the person who made it, or possibly something different. For what it's worth, I'm leaning towards thinking that all three characters are indicative of the maker's and/or school's name rather than the "made by" kanji.

 

1st character: 見・貝・貞

 

2nd character: 正

 

3rd character: 作・次・右・佑・祐

 

with the sword in front of me it looks like 見正次; would this help give definite proof of ownership to a specific school or maker?

[Grey Doffin]

I like Kai Masasuke but one other possibility that hasn't been mentioned is Norimasa 則正　Saku. The mune of the nakago has been shaved with the suriage and the 2 vertical strokes could be missing. Just a thought.

Grey

[Veli]

3rd character: 作・次・右・佑・祐

 

 

For the sake of completeness, I'd like to point out that there is still one more variant of the "Suke" kanji to be considered: 佐

 

BR, Veli