Ethical Question for collectore & Enthusiasts...

[CurtisR]

I'm about to send off a blade for shirasaya. It is a good Showa blade, by a good smith. Upon it's return (also having a habaki made), I would like at leat a traditional Tsukan made for it (or to attempt it myself), but also hoave to pick the Tsuba, meniki & f/k. IF I go ahead with the project.

 

How do the pro's here (who's opinions I respect very much, BTW) feel about this? SHould the fittings be new (including the Tsuba & f/K), or should I perhaps find decent older, late Edo pieces (which would then need to be fitted)? I'm truly in a quandry over this but fortunately have plenty of time to decide and to take input. I'm not sure if it would be disrespectful to mount nice fittings onto a nice blade, as the fittings would need to be filed, etc. Not much worried about the Menuki, as they can fit right into the there if I look long enough.

 

Just trying to avoid the "Oh my god, what did you DO??" reaction.....

 

Many thanks in advance,

 

Curt R>

[CurtisR]

Damn my typo's"....:"traditional Tsuka"

"have to pick the Tsuba, menuki & f/k"

"Not much worried about the menuki as they can be fitted right into the theme if I look long enough"

 

Apologies,

 

Curt R.

[David Flynn]

Having done exactly this myself, I shall give you my opinion. You will never get your money back! My sword looks good. I used all antique fittings. However, upon reflection, I wished I had left it with it's original gunto Koshirae. Good Gunto koshirae with a polished Gendaito is worth what I would get if I sold it with the Koshirae I had made. This means, the $3k Koshirae doesn't count. Luckily, I don't plan to sell this sword in the near future, so the cost doesn't really count yet. However, if and when I do sell it, that $3k is gone.

[sanjuro]

Having personally explored both of your options over the years, I know that in the end it will come down to what you feel comfortable with. However, Edo period fittings are not hard to come by, and you would stand a good chance of getting a good original set. As far as assembling them into a koshirae goes, have it done professionally and supply the fittings yourself. Any alterations such as filing or semigane are done properly and this was common practice when mounting a sword anyhow. Making a tsuka and saya is not a job an amateur should really do if you want a nice homogenous finish that looks in proportion and suits the fittings you supply.

On the other hand, when I have had fittings made it has proved very expensive and I always felt that they were essentially 'replicas' of fittings from a bygone age. Thats just me however, because I'm a traditionalist by nature and older is better in my head.

 

The first option is easier on the pocket in the long run so I guess it will also depend on how much hard earned cash you want to part with to achieve your ultimate goal.

 

I suggest you talk to Ford Hallam on this board about a full set of fittings if you want get an idea of the cost and process of having some made. His work is renowned, and he will be a valuable source of information, since he is never shy about voicing an informed opinion. :D

[Ford Hallam]

Cheers Keith, I'll take that as my cue to voice "an informed opinion" :D What would you do without me?

 

From my perspective undoubtedly the cheapest option is to use suitable older fittings. The only drawbacks being the sizes of the fuchi/kashira. Edo period fittings tend to be slightly on the small side for more healthily proportioned newer blades, and Western men's hands

There is the question of whether Edo period style fittings would be appropriate for a Showa period blade but that is a matter of personal concern, I feel. I have no doubt that those sorts of considerations were not all that important in the past. Older blades were revered but very frequently mounted in the style or fashion that was popular at the time.

 

Following that, perhaps traditional, attitude I might suggest that the 'correct' approach today would be to have mountings made that were reflective of a more contemporary aesthetic. That raises the question as to what that aesthetic might look like. For some of my clients it was a subtle Hallam take/interpretation of older styles. While for others a somewhat more original approach was favoured. In all cases though, the work is fully informed by and develops out of the art and workmanship of the past.

 

Personally speaking I don't favour simply mimicking older work (an exception would be where a koshirae is in need of a replacement part). Merely reproducing older styles is to my mind a waste of time and money. My feeling is that having something more contemporary made (while still strongly informed by the tradition) one gets both something unique and personal to enjoy, and there's a small chance the work might ultimately be valued in the same way good work of the past is. By which I mean it may eventually be seen as adding to the tradition in a meaningful way.

 

As to costs, a reasonably original and well designed set of tsuba, f/k and menuki would probably start at around $9000. I dare say there are cheaper alternatives though

[sanjuro]

OK, so why is it that I feel like the unpaid advertising exec for Ford Hallam Incorporated huh???? :?

[Ford Hallam]

Ok, so I clearly owe you more than a couple of 'cold one's' when I get to Oz

[Toryu2020]

Curt -

Perhaps I misunderstand so want to ask - where are you getting the saya made? Is the craftsman not producing a new habaki along with a new tsuka to match the shirasaya? Is it just a saya you are having made, one suitable for lacquer and wear as a full koshirae?

 

I only ask because getting a "shirasaya" is generally not a step to re-mounting an old sword...

-t

[rkg]

Curt,

 

To clarify, you've got a gendaito you're sending out to get a decent habaki/shirasaya made for, right?

 

What's your purpose in building a tsuka/whole koshirae? do you want to maybe use it for iai/cutting, just to hang on the wall/study with the blade in it, or...?

 

Also, are you trying to make up a piece using everything like they would have done in the period ("right" methods, materials, etc) or are you a modern version (maybe more practical for swinging,etc)?

 

If you're planning on swinging it, you might want to consider paying somebody knowledgeable to put the thing together for you and make some changes to the blade like punching a second

nakago ana (its major uncool to have a blade pop out of the tsuka in use, etc - I'm sure one of the experts like Mr. Helm can elaborate).

 

If not and you're not interested in a perfect reproduction and you want to try your hand at making a tsuka/doing the tsukamaki - why not? Just be sure to use the right materials,adhesives, etc. so you don't turn your blade into a rusty mess - and if you scratch/mess up the blade, that's on you..

 

On fittings... That's a tough one - filing/juking stuff to fit on a koshirae will reduce their resale value and it does diminish the piece (as part of its history prior to your ownership is removed), but on the other hand, there are a LOT of fittings out there (think about it, millions of swords were made, and whole lot of them had multiple koshirae..) so while I'd think twice before hacking up decent fittings, its kind of hard to say that taking some low level fittings out of circulation for this is really historically significant in the scheme of things. You might want to consider a hybrid approach - maybe use a real tsuba (seems like a lot of practitioners at least swap out the modern tsuba on their iaito for a period one), and then modan menuki (you can't hardly see them anyway) and maybe f/k as well. Of course, if you're just playing, repros can be cheeper (most of the time).

 

Good Luck with your project,

 

rkg

(Richard George)

 

P.S. If you're thinking of swinging with it, you might want to skip the shirasaya and just get a user koshirae made.

[Jean]

Complicated Tom, it seems Curt is trying/willing to have a koshirae made for a blade and is wondering if he can use old fittings for this purpose or must have new ones made. He was thinking of making himself the tsuka and its binding.

 

My answer to this question is: do as you like Curt, ethics have nothing to do in this matter, all depends on your purse as it has been during centuries for samurais.

[sanjuro]

make some changes to the blade like punching a second nakago ana

 

This is not necessary and may ultimately devalue the blade to some extent. On the one hand You express concern about filing the fittings to fit a blade saying it will devalue the fittings, and in the next paragraph you suggest drilling an extra hole in the nakago. Hardly a consistent attitude.

A showato, whether you consider them 'real' nihonto or otherwise, does not warrant altering the blade and its originality in order to use it, (if using it is indeed the objective). Thousands upon thousands of swords were made and used seriously with only one mekugi pin. With a correctly fitting tsuka and tight mekugi pin, there is no danger of the blade flying out of the tsuka during use.

Fittings were and are often subjected to a little filing in order to make them fit if necessary. At worst only the nakago ana of the fuchi and possibly the tsuba will need adjusting.

Unless fittings have been specifically made for a blade, and very few Edo period fittings were made for a specific sword, then a slight alteration is fine. Many of the Edo period fittings and tsuba we see have been adjusted in this way already at some point in their life.

[george trotter]

Hi Curt,

We are all expressing personal preferences here so I would like to add mine in terms of "era appropriate" and "purpose appropriate".

I have to agree with Dave Flynn on this one. It sounds like the blade is WWII period gendaito, so, as it was made in Showa and it was made to

use on the battlefield, I would certainly consider keeping its original fittings with it (if they are still with it).

They are era and purpose appropriate.

If in good condition that's great, if not, and you want to display it mounted, I'd at least get a new liner made for the saya and otherwise leave "as is"...this is history!

If the fittings are lost, I would seriously consider re-building a set with a new tsuka wood/gunto colour itomaki and a new black lacquer saya with leather cover...this would not be cheap either but I think less than "artistic" tosogu. Also, I would not make a new hole. There are plenty of pics of tsuka and binding on line...you can easily measure and decide on a tsuka length and binding width that fit exactly to your existing nakago ana when the tsuba/seppa/kashira are in place.

Here is a RJT Nakata Kanehide I rebound from a naked tsuka (with all original parts and WWII ito)...not great I agree...but era and purpose appropriate.

 

Personally (no offence to anyone), but I would not dress up a Showa blade as an Edo katana...better you go get an Edo katana.

Just my 10 yen's worth, hope it helps.

Regards,

[cabowen]

Might be hard to practice iai-to with the blade in gunto koshirae, if that is what he intends, otherwise that advice is well articulated George....

[george trotter]

Thanks Chris...ah yes, I forgot that he may wish to use the blade...in that case...anything goes.

[sanjuro]

Gentlemen,

We are working in the dark here. We dont know what the owners intentions are and it seems we are arriving at conclusions that may not apply. It may be fitting (no pun intended)at this point for Curtis to state if there is a gunto koshirae with this blade and to what purpose he intends to put the sword when mounted. At least we can then advise appropriately. :D

[Bruno]

This could be an alternative : showa fittings, uchigatana, and era appropriate.

 

http://www.h4.dion.ne.jp/~t-ohmura/gunto_037.htm

[CurtisR]

Second try to re-post; apologies!

 

The blade came in "half shirasaya (no habaki, no tsuka, no Tsuba...nothing but the lower part of a low-grade shirasaya. I am having it fitted w/ new habaki and shirasay as "step #1", but though it might be nice to have koshirae as well...all of your opinions are excellent and give me a direction to follw (I think Jean said it best ) but didn't want to put new fitting onto on older blade which would = "insult" to the smith & blade. I'll have plenty of time to search for a new set, and am getting fairly decent (in Western terms) at Tuskamaki, for a decent set of matching fittings.

 

As an aside, I don't plan on using it for Iai, or for Tameshigiri - I have much less expensive blades for those - but may just leave it alone in it's shirasaya vs/ "playing with it". It's not an 'art sword' but is beautiful to my eye...perhaps best just to leave it be unless (As Ford suggests) I have the 9k to invest to do it justice . At the VERY least it will have a wonderful shirasaya to preserve it, and a beautiful, solid silver habaki.

 

Many sincere thanks for your thoughts on this subject....as it IS mine, I didn't want to go messing with it until I'd run it by you all.

 

Cheers!

 

Curt R.