Sword i recently bought , and want some opinions on it.

[bmoore1322]

Okay, I recently bought this one, it does have a beautiful hamon , and some hada present, the pics do not show the hada, but it is present.

 

I think it is most likely a late Shinto, or early ShinShinto blade around 1800's or so.

 

The fittings are very old, I'm thinking Shinto period on the fittings also, and such, but it seems to have an WW2 Menuki, which confuses me somewhat, and the notches on the top of the Menui-Machi are a little confusing also, as they seem to have been put there on purpose.

 

The Tsuba seems very old, and is not signed either, but there are three small circles on it, and once again that is very confusing also.

 

The fittings on the handle have gold inlays of an ox and are in fantastic shape.

 

The blade is 22 1/2" in total length and the cutting edge is just over 17 1/4", the Ha razor sharp down the entire edge of the blade.

 

The Nakago is not signed, and has the old black rust on it.

 

The blade seems of an old polish.

 

The fittings on this sword, and the Saya, are very old.

 

Brian

[bmoore1322]

More pics.

 

Brian

[Thierry BERNARD]

The fittings are very old, ...

The Tsuba seems very old, ...

The fittings on this sword, and the Saya, are very old.

 

Brian

 

rusty does not necessarily mean old !!

[bmoore1322]

You are absolutely correct, but every book I have looked at, and every old Nihonto I have seen that does have black rust on the Nakago, majority have the black rust , and never the brown color newer rust, do you not agree.

 

Yes, they do seem very old, and not newer made pieces.

 

Do you not agree that they seem from the period I mention, or what ?

 

 

Brian

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Brian,

The WWII menuki mean the tsuka was wrapped no earlier than the war. I think you have a Shinto or Shinshinto unsigned wakizashi with parts put together after the war, to be sold to a member of the occupying US forces. OK if you're happy with it and you didn't pay more than 2 or 300 $, but nothing special and not much to learn from other than that next time you might want to look for better.

When you're new to Japanese sword collecting you want to buy everything (I did). As you gain knowledge and experience you learn that you'd rather save your money for quality.

Grey

[drbvac]

It appears to be something that someone with a whole lot of separate parts in a bin put together to sell. Regardless of purported age by appearance IMHO none of the parts are are all that great and as with anything the sum of the parts is at least not much higher than the average of the lowest.

 

Even in the middle of nowhere nihonto wise I would be hesitant to put much money or time into this particular item.

[paulb]

Hi Brian,

I think much of below has already been said. I tried to post it earlier but the site seemed to be having a few strange moments. I dont think there is anything that contradicts what others have said although I think the pricing comments a little harsh.

The sword looks to be a fairly standard shinto or early shinsinto wakazashi. It looks to be clean without any obvious problems. As you say the polish is old but you can see some detail in it.

It looks to be an honest blade. Like many of the period I think it has heavy Mino influence (opinion not statement of fact)

The combination of fitting suggest someone has remounted it, or at least had the tsuka rebound in the more recent past. The gunto menuki would indicate whoever did it used what was available rather than following a specific theme. The Fuchi Kashira look in very good condition but may be a lot younger than the other components. The tusba I will leave for more qualified people to comment on but to me it looks to be much the same period as the blade.

This is not top notch work it is a example of the type of blade worjn by both samurai and Merchants during theEdo period. The mounts have been assmebled later. Provided you did not pay a large amount for it I think it is an ok example of the time.

[cabowen]

Don't confuse old with quality. Poorly made swords were made in all periods, as were good swords.

 

There is really only one thing that this amalgamation can teach and that is it is better to spend your money educating yourself so you don't toss money away on things you will come to regret buying.

 

There are three kinds of collectors:

 

-those that learn from the mistakes of others

-those that learn from their own mistakes

-those that never learn

 

The least expensive and fastest route is the first choice though those that choose it seem to be in the minority.

[Baka Gaijin]

Good afternoon Brian

 

When you show a Tsuba, show it with the smaller part of the Nakago ana to the top of screen.

 

That way it makes it easier when asking people to look for a design or style.

 

Check out Jim Gilbert's Tsuba site and you'll see how to do it:

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~jggilbert/tsuba.htm

 

Ganbare - がんばれ

 

Cheers

[runagmc]

Brian, is the habaki shakudo or is it painted a dark color?

 

Also, does anyone have a good idea as to what the notches on the edge of the nakago mune (under the habaki) are? I've seen these on lots of lower end swords over the years, but no one seems to know for sure what they are. Maybe a body count - or something less sinister like an armory mark?

[Brian]

The one thing they aren't (and everyone wishes they were :? ) is battle marks.

I suspect they are just used to match up a blade with certain fittings when doing a retrofit or original koshirae, so they don't get mixed up.

 

Brian

[NihontoEurope]

They could be Harakiri marks. Five successful or 5 not so...

[bmoore1322]

I paid less then 600.00 for it, and i really do like the looks of it, Yes i would love to know what the hash marks on it mean.

 

 

This is not a poorly made blade, i would say it is of an high quality, and shows the hamon perfectly, and the Hada is there, just does not show it in the pics.

 

I dont think it is a parts piece sword, as they all match up perfectly, and seem to be original to the sword, I do think that it was re-wrapped for War Time use.

 

And it being an Wakazashi just makes it better, as this is what i like to collect.

 

thanks for the comments, much appreciated.

 

Brian

[Thierry BERNARD]

This is not a poorly made blade, i would say it is of an high quality, and shows the hamon perfectly, and the Hada is there, just does not show it in the pics.

 

I dont think it is a parts piece sword, as they all match up perfectly, and seem to be original to the sword, I do think that it was re-wrapped for War Time use.

 

And it being an Wakazashi just makes it better, as this is what i like to collect.

 

 

what a beautiful story !!!

[drbvac]

You are welcome for comments and entitled your opinion but before anything else is said or done if I may - you may want to assess the blade and fittings with book in hand to use the purchase as a real learning experience with your own nihonto rather than looking totally at pictures.

 

I found out the hard way that it is better to miss a really great blade than be ahead of the game and buy a whole bunch of mediocre or poor ones. The hard thing is knowing or at least recalling the details you picked up looking at the books.

 

I would be very surprised if any of this were made en-suite and personally would not bother polishing the blade.

 

Have fun 0 collect what you like for sure but at least make sure what you like is worth owning as well.

[bmoore1322]

@ Thierry BERNARD

 

What do you mean by this, I like everything about the sword, not asking for anyone's approval, just asking for comments, and what everyone thinks about it.

 

The price i paid for it, i think the blade alone is worth that, and the fittings are worth more then what i paid for it also, and I don't think it would need a polish, as it does have an old polish to it.

 

I will do nothing to it, but enjoy having it in my collection of around 10 Nihonto's now.

 

I enjoy collecting these historical, and beautiful swords, and will continue to do so.

 

Thanks for the comment everyone.

 

Brian

[Jussi Ekholm]

Brian, as a fellow novice collector I'd like to say that please pay some attention to the advice that is given to you in here. Many of the members here have been collecting nihonto longer than I've been alive, the knowledge and wisdom that they offer here is very generous, and we should be glad for that. And we should try to absorb as much of that information we can.

 

I've seen you've been buying a lot of blades lately, and my advice might be to slow down the buying phase a bit and lenghten the study phase of each sword. I know by experience that in the beginning you can actually learn a lot even from the "bad-mediocre" blades. Just take a lot of time studying them, and you'll probably see some things you might have missed before.

 

I tend to think in similar way that you should buy what you like, but... take time thinking what you actually will want. Then maybe further narrow it down to few possible purchases, and keep looking and waiting if something like that will come up somewhere. Eventually it will show up and then it's buying time if the price is right.

 

I remember you also have purchased some books of this subject, and I think that is a well made investment to this hobby, and will be very important learning material.

 

As a final note I'd suggest you to think why you see this as high quality blade. I mean this post in no bad manner, and have fun collecting swords, but please pay some thought to comments given to you in these threads.

[Jiro49]

Brian, I noticed you stated that the menuki were gunto menuki but then you state you don't think the tsuka-ito was re-done. But WWII menuki would not be original on an Edo period sword..

 

Ive said this before to you in a post but if you ask opinions don't get defensive regarding the replies..

 

Respectfully,

[nagamaki - Franco]

Brian, several times now you have described hamons as being beautiful, but one question is whether or not you truly understand the meaning, and what suggests that is never any mention of nie, nioi, or any other hataraki on display, or discussion about the quality of the hamon. Yes, the pattern of the hamon can be a thing of beauty in itself, but the proof is in the detail. Otherwise, if only the pattern is what matters then what does it matter whether you're collecting nihonto or showato or even fakes if you cannot see and tell the difference.

[bmoore1322]

@ Matt

 

 

I don't mind comments, or some of the negative comments people make, its the snide, or derogatory comments as someone stated what a beautiful story, if you don't like it, then go on to the next, but no need for such comments.

 

I have had other members in say the same thing, that they don't post swords any more, because of the know it all types, that have nothing but negative things to say about a sword, just like the sword i bought awhile back, the usual ones with the negative , and rude comments about the sword, that is until I said I bought it from Benson, out of Hawaii, and then all of a sudden , those same person's quit commenting on the sword, and had nothing else to say about it.

 

Brian

[cabowen]

If you like it, that is all that really matters.

 

If you come here looking for comments, then you need to be prepared to hear the truth. And the truth is, this is a $600 sword. It is not something that would get a second look from anyone with any experience in this hobby. Sure, you could put it up on ebay and probably get your money back. That doesn't mean it isn't mediocre, it just means you are not alone. It is still a $600 sword.

 

You have asked for help and advice, and most everyone here has told you the same thing: learn what quality is by study and gain the experience necessary to tell the good from the bad, invest in a library, and refrain from buying whatever shiny thing strikes your fancy until you have developed an eye for quality.

 

Of course you are free to ignore all this advice and continue to throw good money after bad. Like I said, all that really matters is that you are happy with your purchases. It is your money. Be careful though in defending these purchases by saying the sword is well made, has a beautiful hamon, etc., because people here will call you on it.

 

$600 would buy an airline ticket to Louisville and a few nights in a hotel. There you could see the current exhibit of swords, the likes of which you may never have the chance to see again in the US. You would learn far more about quality there in a few hours than you could ever learn from a $600 sword.....

[bmoore1322]

I live in Ohio, and driving down to Louisville next weekend.

 

thanks

Brian

[cabowen]

I live in Ohio, and driving down to Louisville next weekend.

 

thanks

Brian

 

 

[bmoore1322]

@ Chris

 

I would have made it awhile back, but with my son being in college right now, i was waiting on a weekend that he would be home so that we could make a family event out of it the entire weekend.

 

Brian

[Brian]

I think a lot is going to change for you once you see the exhibition. Enjoy, and tell us about it.

 

Brian

[drbvac]

Please take pictures if you can - I am 2500 miles from Louisville and a couple of thousand dollars from anywhere else I could see real quality. Last seen were in the Tate in London when there years ago and at the Museum of FIne Art it Boston when Ohiro san was there.

 

Ask questions - look at details - have fun

 

B