Soshin

Hi Ian B., You could be right. It is really hard to tell in the photographs having the menuki set in hand would be the only way to determine for sure. The corrosion does have a reddish color to it but it might not be iron rust. Yours truly, David Stiles

Hi Curtis, I would say middle to late Edo Period. Generally I aggree with the seller on eBay. Yours truly, David Stiles

Hi Everyone, I updated the original post with new and better photos. Here is another Owari Sukashi tsuba I have with a similar motif with the wild geese (karigane 雁金) in twin pairs but the kozoku hitsu-ana is in the shape of Japanese ginger (myoga 茗荷). This I am dated about the same time period of the middle Edo Period but is sized to fit a katana at 7.8 ✕ 7.6 cm with a 0.45 cm thickness at the rim. The very wide seppa-dai seen in both tsuba is associated along with the thick ji-sukashi with Owari Sukashi as well as the Kanayama Schools. The rim has linear tekkotsu which might have been exaggerated by rust damage to the rim which has since been removed. Yours truly, David Stiles

Hi Curtis R., It looks like the menuki are made out of iron because I see what I think is red rust. I haven't seen many menuki sets made out of iron. Do you have any photos of the reverse side? Yours truly, David Stiles

Hi Ed, I would agree the design does match very well. In the case of the tsuba the central line found in the painting is replaced by the seppa-dai and the nakago-ana. Still not sure how it could mean void or emptiness. Thank you. Yours truly, David Stiles

Hi Ed, I not sure how the Japanese Kanji for mu (無) meaning emptiness or void is related to the design of the Kanji on the tsuba. I am fairly sure the modern Japanese Kanji with this meaning has underwent simplification from the original archaic Chinese ideogram. Could you provide a picture of the painting you are referring to? I think this would be helpful to David. Yours truly, David Stiles

Hi Everyone, Here is a new Owari Sukashi tsuba I picked at a discount price for Christmas on the NMB's sales section. It is a small tsuba at 6.8 cm X 6.5 cm with a rim thickness of 0.45 cm. I think it is intended for a wakizashi. The iron and craftsmanship is very characteristic of the middle Edo Period Owari Sukashi school work. I am sill trying to figure out the designs on either side of the seppa-dai. Does anyone have any reasonable ideas? The designs above below the seppa-dai are wild geese (karigane 雁金) that are often rendered in twin pairs on ji-sukashi tsuba of many different schools. Thanks in advance for taking the time to answer my question. Here is a very similar tsuba that sold at Yamabushi Antiques recently: http://www.yamabushiantiques.com/TSUBA74.htm. P.S. Updated the photos that are clearer then the original ones I taken of the tsuba. Yours truly, David Stiles

Hi David, I was told by multiple sources offline and online not to boil a iron tsuba in tea. I have tried the iron tsuba into white cotton pockets. I think this approach is fine with helping to build patina. Cycling a freeze cycle has work for me as well making sure no red rust is allowed to develop. This might work on your tsuba as the rim has the thin patina that shows up as grey spots. Hope you find the information helpful. Another general good rule of thump is to go slow and don't use any strong chemicals. Yours truly, David Stiles

Hi David, From looking at the mimi the patina looks a bit thin and heavy rust was likely removed at some point. I have a Edo Period Owari Sukashi tsuba with a similar problem it was over cleaned in my opinion in Japan. It has very prominent tekkotsu that are artifactual and the result of heavy rust being removed. I am not seeing any of the large tekkotsu found on ealry Kanayama tsuba. Thickness and over all size is also consistent with either Momoyama or ealry Edo Period Kanayama school work. Thanks for taking the time to provide the additional information and photo. Hi Rich, Thanks for the additional information. Yours truly, David Stiles

Hi Mariusz K., To develop my idea some more of it being a Kanayama school tsuba from Owari Province circa the Momoyama Period. The tsuchimei-ji and glossiness on the surface is fairly clear both are often seen in Kanayama tsuba. The large over sized seppa-dai in proportion to the rest of the guard is often seen in Kanayama tsuba as well. The ji-sukashi design is not as complex or involving as many different design elements as you would see in Owari Sukashi tsuba in my opinion. Having additional information from the owner would be helpful as I think it would confirm my theory. I would suspect the tsuba to be small in size and thick with many tekkotsu "iron bones" along the rim. I would also expect the rim to be either square or rounded square in shape. This is often seen in Owari tsuba of all schools. I posted awhile back a Owari tsuba I purchased on eBay for about $90.00 USD a few years ago and it papered early this year to NBTHK Hozon to an Owari school circa the late Edo Period. It had the rounded square rim and is small and very thick in size. Photos of it are up on my website for reference. Yours truly, David Stiles

Hi Lance, I still think the ji-sukashi design is likely archaic Chinese characters. The design element above the seppa-dai is a weight used in money exchange. Please see the following link discussing it on a Kyo-Sukashi tsuba: http://kodogunosekai.com/2011/10/27/kyo-sukashi-testu-ji-sukashi-tsuba-%E4%BA%AC%E9%80%8F-%E9%89%84%E5%9C%B0-%E9%80%8F%E9%8D%94/. I Hope the author of the blog replies to the thread as he is very knowladge about Owari tsuba. The design element below is likely another archaic Chinese character. Hi David, The more I look at this tsuba it reminds me of mid period (i.e. Momoyama Period) Kanayama school work. Would love to see photos of the rim and have measurements including thickness. Nice story very different them many of my stories about finding a nice tsuba. Most of my stores just involve me saving money and waiting awhile. Yours truly, David Stiles

Hi Everyone, It could very well be a archaic Chinese form of a Kanji character. Sasano had some Kanayama tsuba in his last book with Kanji designs that also remind me of this tsuba. It could also be a Bonji character. Here is a link to a website I found really helpful in researching the following tsuba in my collection that has a Bonji character done in in-sukashi: http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/buddhism.shtml. All of the Buddhas, Gods, etc. have Bonji as well as Kanji associated with them. After having seen a fair amount of Edo Period Nobuie copies I am starting to think my tsuba belongs to the Owari Nobuie School. The Bonji on my tsuba is for Fudo-Myo-O. Here is a direct link to my website to view the tsuba I am referring to: http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeo23jk/id20.html. I hope you find this information helpful. Yours truly, David Stiles

Hi Pete, Thanks for posting such a interesting tsuba for discussion. I would say it was a heavily altered and likely repaired Hizen school tsuba. Yours truly, David Stiles

Hi David, Nice Owari Sukashi tsuba. Having some views of the rim would be great. I will do some searching and see if I can come up with something in terms of what the stylized Kanji characters are. Off the top of my head nothing comes to mind. Yours truly, David Stiles

Here is some translation of the tsuba signature. Yamashirokuniju 山城國住 (right of the nakago-ana) Umetada Mune? 埋忠宗? (left of the nakago-ana) The last Kanji I can't read. Having a detail photo of the tsuba directly in front would be helpful or just a scan. Camera flash is also making it hard to read. Please sign your name or some part of it on your posts. I hope you find the information helpful. Yours truly, David Stiles

Hi Everyone, I aggree with Guido's point I think there were wonderful works of art in all time periods. I like this tsuba regardless of age. It reminds me of a friends kagamisni tsuba that I dated to the Momoyama Period. I'm not completely condvenced with Sasano's early dating. Yours truly, David Stiles

Hi Marc, Really nice tsuba. Don't have any idea who made the tsuba as these type are not my strong point. Thanks for sharing. Yours truly, David Stiles

Hi David, The kozuka-hitsu ana looks original. Nornally a nonoriginal hitsu ana will cut throuht the design. Not sure of the age of the Tsuba other then I think it is Edo Period. Hope you find the information helpful. Yours truly, David Stiles

Hi David, The style of rim (dote mimi) and overall shape (maru-gata) reminds me of kachushi circa the Edo Period but frequently you would see some ko-sukashi or surface treatment and the difference in the thickness between the seppa-dai (middle) and mimi (rim) would be much greater often being a few milometers. I don't know anything about the Edo Period Satsuma school. Sorry about not being much help. Yours truly, David Stiles

Hi Pete, Thanks for taking the time to write up with such a detail explanation that I am sure will help improve my as well as others understanding of the topic. Comparing this tsuba to another signed Umetada tsuba with a similar style of openwork I do notice the similarities. Because this work is unsigned would the term Ko-Umetada (古埋忠) be applicable or is the work to late in the early Edo for that to be applicable? I am fully aware this is a nebulous term to being with. Yours truly, David Stiles

Hi Everyone, Quick note I updated this thickness measurements after remeasuring under direct light. The thickness of the seppa-dai is greater at 0.35 cm then the mimi which is only 0.25 cm. Still the thickness of 0.35 cm at the sappa-dai makes me think early Edo Period for age of this Tôshô (刀匠) tsuba. It was sold to me by a dealer in the USA as a early Edo Period Tôshô (刀匠) tsuba. Yours truly, David Stiles

Hi Curran, While my question is verbose there is a question mark in my post. Next time I will bold it and use a larger font size. :lol: To simplify my question would a Katchûshi (甲冑師) and Tôshô (刀匠) tsuba dated to the Azuchi-Momoyama Period be attributed to ko-Katchûshi (古甲冑師) or ko-Tôshô (古刀匠) officially on the shinsa paper by the NTHK and NBTHK? The reason I am asking is just for my own personal research and the correct association of a time period of production based upon an official attribution. Another way to state the question is if I see a Katchûshi (甲冑師) and Tôshô (刀匠) tsuba with the ko (古) prefix then I should date it to Muromachi Period assuming all other normal attribution points patina color, iron, workmenship, and style point to this early production period? Yours truly, David Stiles

Hi Everyone, Finished up my "Black Friday" shopping for myself on the NMB. :D Reading through my small collection of books a Tsuba terminology question developed in my mind that inclined me to start a thread the NMB Tosogu forum. The question started from some inconsistencies I have observed in the application of the prefix ko (古) meaning old in some English books on tosogu. The prefix of ko (古) is officially (i.e. NBTHK and NTHK kantei) used in the context of Katchûshi (甲冑師) and Tôshô (刀匠) tsuba for works of the Muromachi Period and earlier or just the pre-Edo Periods (i.e. Azuchi-Momoyama Period and before) works? Here is a photo of a early Edo Period Tôshô (刀匠) tsuba in my collection. The major kantei point why I think it is Tôshô (刀匠) and not Katchûshi (甲冑師) is because the thickness of the seppa-dai is greater at 0.35 cm then the mimi at 0.25 cm. This type of change in thickness where the seppa-dai is thicker is often seen in Tôshô (刀匠) and not Katchûshi (甲冑師) tsuba. Normally in Katchûshi (甲冑師) tsuba the rim significantly thicker then the center part of the tsuba. The complexity of the sukashi and surface treatment along with the thickness is another reason I think this is a Edo Period work. Thanks for taking the time to answer my question. Yours truly, David Stiles (Updated with new thickness measurements after remeasuring under direct light.)

Hi Marcello, The nanako-ji on the tsuba as well as the color of the patina of the shakudo is fairly poor. The poor color is likely due to the very low gold content. High quality shakudo with have a wonderful rich even dark blue-black color and have about 6% gold. Take a look at the Goto tsuba the guys from Tetsugendo.com posted on the tosogu board. This will give you a good reference of what great shakudo nanako-ji looks like on a tsuba. I would say that the tsuba was likely made in the Meiji Period and I would consider it Shiiremono (仕入物). On the bright side I don't think it is a Chinese fake. Yours truly, David Stiles

Hi Mike Y., Thanks for the photos of the wonderful Hikozo Higo tsuba. Having such wonderful examples to study are wonderful. I just going to set back, read, and learn. My current personal tastes are in line with the tsuba (T-143 Kyo Sukashi Tsuba) your currently have on your website that is on hold. :D Yours truly, David Stiles