Matsunoki

What is silly to some is not silly to others. What is a redundant question is not redundant to the person asking it. Surely the point of a Forum is to help and educate everyone especially those trying to make a start in this hobby. What is a horrible blade is also quite probably someones first sword bought with great excitement. The reaction he gets here and how that reaction is delivered could either encourage him or break his spirit. Going forwards this hobby needs all the new blood it can get…..they are the ones who will buy our collections when we leave the planet. …and of course it’s not compulsory to read or reply to topics that are below your pay grade. We all started somewhere.

Alex, I’m not so sure. In the same way as Japanese pass their knowledge and skills on why not these Chinese craftsmen? I see such similarities between this Tanto and those that emerged way back…..even the dragon mounts. Most people on this forum would simply not believe their eyes had they encountered those earlier pieces. Some I know changed hands for well over £15k. They fooled two of the worlds top Meiji dealers. In a way I hope it is the same studio ……such genius skills deserve to survive. I still wish I’d bought (and kept) the amazing Tachi.

That is very interesting. About 25 years ago some stunning but fake Japanese swords….tachi and Tanto mostly…hit the Meiji Art scene in the UK. I mean stunning….as good as Japanese metalwork. You would have to have seen one to believe. The rumour was they were made in China by Japanese craftsmen. The blades were excellent. I was offered one, a Tachi with similar dragon fittings to this Tanto, solid silver and proper mixed metals. Staggering quality. I was offered it out of the boot of a brand new Bentley at a major UK Exhibition. I was told it was new but more were available. Back then it was £5k which was really tempting and extreme.y cheap but I didn’t want to get involved. I knew a couple of London dealers had bought some. A few went through the rooms and then they just dried up. I wonder if this is the same outfit? You would have believed it was the best Meiji workmanship. Can these miniatures be bought now?

Very big on function, very low on aesthetic appeal. Brutal not beautiful. ….imo.

Once upon a time this thread was about a tsuba….but became a pantomime. Boring and a pity.

I am sorry to hear that Jacques and wish you a full and speedy recovery.

Recognising quality can really only be achieved by studying a great many pieces. You need to develop an “eye” that will tell you immediately how good something is irrespective of what any signature might suggest. It is not easy to explain. However, the fact that a chunk of inlay has fallen off this one is a good indicator plus the figures are crudely done. Does that hat really look like it’s sitting on the child’s head? Does that face look like a good face? Does the placement of the feet look “right”? Is there any detail in Mt Fuji or has the maker just done the bare minimum? if you want to spend time learning I suggest you go onto Bonhams website, search “tsuba” and click on “past lots”. You will have thousands to look at and the actual sold prices will start to give you an insight. Many are sold in multiple lots so make sure you read the descriptions. Sadly there is no short cut. If you want to be able to identify better quality and then start to collect better quality you have to put the hard work in! If on the other hand you just want to collect “tsuba” based purely on what appeals to you then the road ahead is easier but full of pitfalls and traps!! In my opinion, one really good piece gives more pleasure than a box full of crap items. There is one person on here that will not agree with that last statement……wait for it🙂!

When inlay is missing it has a massive effect on value. There are many perfect examples available. Don’t buy damaged unless it is very very cheap and you absolutely love it. This one is not a particularly “good” tsuba from a quality perspective.

Well, these are just my opinions/preferences and thus will probably not align with yours (or anyone else’s) . In descending order of desireability…… 1. the soft metal tsuba with cranes…..probably the most expensive, nice aesthetic design and good quality inlay 2. dog walker…..possibly the most interesting subject matter, quite amusing but is there some gold (gilded?) inlay missing immediately in front of the dog? 3. sea creatures….the subject matter is always desirable but the design doesn’t really hang together….too fragmented 4. the insects…..just a scattering of assorted insects. No real artistry to the design. Bit boring 5. chickens….terrible condition. Pass. Cranes win by a long way….for me.

Another weakness of mine…..

Looking again…..think it is old after all. There are clear signs of it being mounted….seppa “halo” and definite wear to the Amida rays within the seppadai. The shape is subtle and appealing and the thin rim appears to be well made. It’s the odd, dare I say ugly ana that sent me off down the wrong path first time round. There are also suggestions that it once had raised carving….traces of a rocky outcrop??…..so I wonder if it’s an old plate that has been reworked? Just some musings.

The Fuchi that is on the tsuka is close but is not matching to the saya fittings. It’s the same subject (dragon) but different artistry. The Kashira is non matching either….most likely it would originally have been of handachi type. That’s a pity….would have been lovely. The habaki looks like it’s been hammered a bit….maybe to fit the blade? The kirimon habaki is OK but nothing special….its a common subject from late Edo.

Very nice saya. Handachi koshirae like these were very popular as Daisho mountings in the later Edo period which is when I feel this saya dates from. Have you got the fuchi/kashira to match? If so, find some good iron dragon menuki and get the tsuka fixed. That would be quite a desirable mounting.

Never seen an apprentice piece of that astounding quality. Actually never seen an apprentice Koshirae at all. That’s serious metalwork…… difficult to believe a beginner made that.

Looks like a £10k+ late Edo/Meiji aikuchi ….until the last image. Never seen anything like it. It’s not a photoshop jobbie is it? ie faked to look smaller.

Good spot!! I’d start walking.

Best to wait until you actually receive it so we can tell for sure if it’s made the way I suspect but yes, you are probably in the right ballpark although I’ve seen them make much more when people get fooled.

The subject is Fujin and this is a late Meiji period paper knife. They often look very impressive but were made in huge numbers for the foreign market ie the Gaijin in Japan at that time and also for later export. The handle is usually made from two alloy pressings that are joined together and often filled with a pitch type substance that holds them and the blade tightly. Can you see a seam where they are joined? The blades are usually a brass type alloy and it unlikely that silver was used due to the cost. It could be silver plate. They are often multi-patinated to look like expensive mixed metalwork. Some even are signed to add to the illusion. The dark stain is simply age tarnishing. Personally I would not clean it at all but it depends if you like an original patina or prefer bright and shiny. A general rule is never clean Japanese metalwork. An excellent example of the Japanese innovative ability to create something that looks high quality but is actually a more modest item. Many kozuka are made using similar methods and often fool people.

I have experienced one dubious “bidding event” with this seller on eBay.

The price already puts the sword into a niche very rarified market. The presence of the Kiri Komi puts it into an even more niche market where many will be put off no matter how rare/fine the sword is. Have you looked at what other swords are available at that money? Would you be concerned at the ease of resale or the resale value with that damage? What value do you put on the “romance” of unproven speculative battle damage? Opinions will vary but technically that is a fatal flaw albeit it on a serious piece of history. Walk around this decision and look at it from all angles, don’t spend this sort of money with rose tinted glasses on. Just an opinion.

I believe originally (Kamakura?) it’s purpose was to stop the saya chafing against armour and saddle. Became popular again late Edo to parade around in and look impressive.

Would have been far more impressive originally…..but it exists. Ever seen one in the flesh?

Bruce…..here’s mine with bear fur not tiger. And the fur is a bit motheaten!

…catch and release…..🙂…..but see if you can swap out the menuki first🙂

The menuki could represent assorted symbols of wealth and good fortune often depicted aboard the Takarabune accompanied by the seven lucky Gods. …. I see jewels, a mallet, a purse etc. Also a hat that looks like Shoki’s.