Matsunoki

Steve, many thanks for taking the time on such a modest item. I just needed to know why such an obviously rough little tsuba had “papers”. Obviously done by the dealer to hype up its saleability…..which worked because a couple of hundred years later I bought it!🙂 Thanks to all for your comments and guidance…..I promise to do better next time. All the best Colin

Hi Dan…..I agree! I disagree!! I think it’s horrible!….but I needed to know how a tsuba like this got papers….if indeed it did.

Hello from the UK I am drifting towards “the dark side” and have started to take a greater interest in iron tsuba. I’ve never studied the subject, nor do I have any books apart from Sasano….probably in my attic somewhere….I must get it down. At a recent local antiques fair (usually nothing but tat) I was amazed to see a chap selling some tsuba. Once I’d recovered from the shock I decided a few of them really interested/intrigued me so we had a deal. Mostly I only ever buy things that I really like but this tsuba is a bit of an exception. Being honest I only bought it because it appears to have papers…..I know nothing about the detail of papers…except that they signify “worthy of preservation - at various levels” I will post each one in forthcoming days and ask for your opinions…..anything that you can tell me will be most welcome. So, starting with this one….what do I have and what are the papers? Apologies for being devoid of knowledge myself…..but we have to start somewhere! Don’t hold back! H 6.95cm. W 6.07cm Thickness 4.9mm…..quite chunky. Many thanks. All the best. Colin

Hi Jeremy I agree with all you say 100% (often enjoy Forged in Fire…amazing talents) but I’m trying to get the “official answer”….is munegire viewed as a fatal flaw in the same way as hagire?

I’ve read this thread a couple of times and I’m a bit confused….and we haven’t yet got a definite answer I think. This is a flaw (crack)in the mune (munegire) not in the edge. A similar flaw in the edge (hagire) is definitely viewed as “fatal” However personally I would not view the damage we see here as fatal……am I wrong? (and it is only a different colour because someone has abraded it presumably to get a better look) Fatal or not fatal?

Personally I think this whole thread should be deleted totally. Just my opinion but I find it so offensive and abusive that it should have no place on a forum that operates with respect, courtesy and tolerance of opposing views (well, mostly!) To say you will dance on someone’s grave is utterly unforgivable. I wonder what any “newbies” would make of this forum reading crap like that. It discredits everything we enjoy. Brian….just my opinions but I bet others might share them. I’m not telling you your job but boy you have amazing tolerance…..thank you. Some of you have educated me recently regards “cancel culture”…..this is a meritorious contender?

Read it yourself matey, “and I'm in the process of identifying it and depending on the age/"rank" I want to have it done correctly” ……like I said, the nakago is essential in identifying any sword.

Ferry, I tried to help you early on. I think I gave you the smiths name. I was the one asking for a sight of the nakago (with a glass of red wine in the other hand) because you were asking for opinions (not as you later allege simply comments on the hamon)….you were investigating your family sword……and the nakago is an essential part of evaluating any sword. In view of your subsequent “performance” I wish to hell I hadn’t bothered. There is little else anyone can tell you about your nice sword from these images so please, let peace “break out”. My hunch is that it’s “right”……not that that counts for a bag of beans.

I’ll make a twit of myself - long, strong taper, slender, graceful koshi(?) sori, kokissaki, masame hada…..old Tachi? I’m sure “someone” here is waiting to highlight my lack of knowledge!

Not necessarily..the Mei could be added later - at any time- sometimes quite a bit later! and on either side of the nakago. Does anyone else think this could be Machi okuri? In which case it could easily have been over 30” originally.

Francis Are you really sure the hamon does not continue into the nakago? To me it looks like the ha and mune machi (the notches that separate tang from blade) have been moved up the blade (called machi okuri) to create a slightly shorter blade/longer tang. Thus imagine the blade width continued …..in the image it does look like the hamon continues…..although it has not been polished and would not show up as well. The fuchi kashira have a great subject….tigers….but they are not a true pair (they should be) ….the fuchi has the bi-metal body which would have been replicated in the kashira. I guess they just used whatever tiger fittings were available. The menuki are showy but average quality. Mismatched fittings is by no means unusual……samurai were mostly rather poor!

Can we see them please? Looks an old blade to me…..interesting.

Kissaki looks heavily reshaped?

It is common for this school to use a long yakidashi as the hamon approaches the nakago ie the complex pattern of choji reduces to a long more narrow and straight hamon. Maybe not on all of their output…who knows…..but from the images it appears that this feature is not present on your sword. That isn’t in it’s favour. Re your feeling that envy etc may cloud people…..I recently had a bit of luck and shared it on this Forum with images etc. I received only a multitude of congratulations and “well done” together with advice re how to do some of the restoration needed. I didn’t get one single negative comment. This forum is superb (maybe one or two idiots) and will generally provide unbelievable assistance freely and willingly. Our aspirations and hopes sometimes mean we might not always like the answers, we might not even agree sometimes…….but there is nowhere else that brings this degree of easily accessible expertise and intelligent debate. Just my opinions.

Just re-entered the world to see there’s been a bit of a “ding dong” about authenticity. I’ll add a few words. A sword that is gimei isn’t a fake sword. It can be a wonderful authentic Japanese sword. It just means that the signature is deemed not to be what it purports to be. Authenticating Mei is a simple matter of opinion and observation comparing it to other mei that were also a matter of opinion….albeit “expert opinion”. The experts often disagree even at the highest levels of knowledge. Your nice looking Wak carries the name Sukekane. The very famous smith from this school was Sukenaga…..your smith purports to be a lesser smith from that famous school. So…..that at least increases the possibility it is authentic as none of the Sukekane were that highly rated compared to Sukenaga. Also the blade exhibits the hamon used by this school but please can we see a good image of both sides where the hamon approaches and enters the nakago? This school had a distinctive yakidashi which “copyists” might not have used. Again it doesn’t make it authentic but it’s another signpost in the right direction! Best to keep an open mind Just my opinions……it’s all a matter of opinions.

Sukekane??….I’m tired and a bit blurred!!!,

Yep,looks like Bizen Osafune ju Yokoyama suke…..but not sure re last character of smiths name. Red wine has now intervened in our interesting debate. I’ll have another look tomorrow but I know for sure the guys in the translation section will nail this ina few minutes. If it is a real Yokoyama school blade….well done.

Bizen Osafune ???? Sukesada saku You might have a lot more luck in the translation section…..some real experts there.

Difficult to see on the actual images. The lighting is not good. Try playing around with a torch or desk lamp shining it across the nakago at different angles. Sometimes the kanji suddenly show up well due to shadows from sideways lighting. My eyes hurt.

You should be ok….gently does it. Look closely at the mekugi…..it should have a taper so push on the narrow end so it pops out at the wider side. Use something with a flat face the same diameter as the end of the mekugi to avoid wedging splitting or wedging it

Looks a rather flamboyant blade! Can we please see the nakago (tang)?…both sides without the habaki (collar) on.

Surely the elephant above and the one immediately below it are Chinese fakes?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inaba_clan

It’s only cast spelter and bronzed but if you just want a display piece that looks the part ……. https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/reeman-dansie/catalogue-id-srree10187/lot-9c97eab4-d4ba-4290-93cf-af9c0108582f?queryId=d1ae010e9a313d0de7f13f8d1786495d

Ian, there is an alloy called Hakudo or “white bronze”. I’m not sure of the actual metallic composition but it is a possibility for your menuki. Objects are often “Matt” finish or dull. It was used a lot in the Taisho era for okimono but of course probably existed prior to that. here are a couple of examples…….do the menuki look to be a similar metal? https://www.kagedo.com/hachii-koji-1960-hakudo-bronze-polar-bear https://www.ewbankauctions.co.uk/20150416A-lot-548-Pair-of-Japanese-Hakudo-bronze-models-of-birds-each-bird-with-silvered-bodies-and-long-tails?arr=0&auction_id=11&box_filter=0&category=&department_id=&exclude_keyword=&export_issue=0&high_estimate=0&image_filter=0&keyword=&list_type=&lots_per_page=10&low_estimate=0&month=&page_no=48&paper_filter=0&search_type=&sort_by=&view=lot_detail&year=