Matsunoki

Brian, I don’t think we will be written off judging by the huge interest I’m getting at the Birmingham Fair…..and that is despite all the ridiculous shipping restrictions and media distortions. Same applies to the other bladed weapons dealers at the fair……you couldn’t fall over if you wanted to….its packed. What I think might happen is that we revert to being a “Fair based” market, like it used to be before internet etc. After all, having something in your hand before you buy it is still the best and most enjoyable way to collect.

The UK has become so paranoid about “knives” that all reason has already been lost and I don’t think any political party would dare suggest any relaxation of the current situation. Indeed quite the opposite is likely……clamping down even more with the attendant “positive publicity” is likely to attract far more votes from the brainwashed masses. Still, you can always just go look in the kitchen drawer. The issue is rooted in the way the kids of today are brought up amid social media madness, peer pressure, exposure to hell knows what on the internet and are then left totally ill prepared for life by our education system and of course a lack of parental responsibility or awareness. Add in the simmering totally unresolved issue of illegal immigration (and it’s links to knife crime) and it feels like we are sitting on a social volcano. This reality is so utterly depressing. Never mind, our new chancellor is now accused of falsifying her online CV and of some very dubious expenses “problems” at her old employers. Just the profile we need to sort things out🫢 Rant over, where’s the vino.

Despite papers, I would get this statement checked out. A kizu on each blade? I wonder why they haven’t illustrated those up front rather than making you go asking further questions? Always makes me uneasy that sort of approach.

Could it be a tinder minus the striking mechanism? That’s what the shape reminds me of. Probably not - but all brass suggests a need to avoid unwanted sparks…..gunpowder? No idea really, just guessing.

Buy one or two good pieces, not 7 very ordinary things. Nothing there I’d even consider buying…..but just my opinion.

Happy hunting….dont be in a rush and always ask “is this period or is it a later copy” especially if you like those “early” tachi mounts.

This link will get you started on “koshirae” https://www.bonhams....=past&query=Koshirae

No offence intended but if you were seriously even considering buying this koshirae then you need to do a lot more homework. I always recommend spending time going through Bonhams “past lots” website. Search for whatever you are interested in. You will find large numbers of tsuba, koshirae, all variants of swords etc etc together with their sold prices. That helps recognise quality and will give you a better idea of what you really want to buy within your budget. It’s easy to let our enthusiasm carry us away to be swiftly followed by “buyers remorse”. Be wary of any koshirae being sold alone especially on online platforms. So many are complete re-fabrications….thats fine if you are happy with that and know what you are buying. From personal experience I have always found matsukaze to be reliable and honest.

That koshirae looks a bit “cobbled together” imo. Lots of things look dodgy. Personally I wouldn’t go anywhere near it. Save more and buy better would be my advice. Even at that money you could find better aogai koshirae if you are patient. edit….John just beat me to it

Something to do with gunnery? Piers? @Bugyotsuji

@Dan tsuba, or perhaps we should say Hawkeye? You were right Dan, twice on one thread! I had to get my mag glass out and still it took me some time. You missed out on the cookie earlier but have one now on me…..🍪🍪 Serioulsy - hats off - good spot.

And…..??.🙂

Dan, if you cannot see that the plates are different then for sure you need a visit to the opticians. Being able to see the detail is absolutely vital especially in Kinko tsuba……and that is where I have failed on these. I did not spot that they were of multiplate construction and although they are horrible quality and very poorly restored you are right….if sanmai is what this method is called then you are correct, they are sanmai. This method is obviously a very cheap cheat so I doubt the plates are made from real shakudo but more probably the “look alike” alloy used on Nagoya mono. Shakudo is very expensive. The construction is really only visible on just one image where the interior of the nakago ana is shown although I’m sure those of you who are familiar with them could spot it a mile away. To describe them as shakudo nanako tsuba is a blatant misdescription….so what’s new there….sadly. Nanako work, Finely carved, gold rim….😳😳 Anyway, I’m off to the opticians tomorrow 🙂

So they will happily handle blades of a size that are the size of the vast majority used in violence and stabbings but not a wonderful antique sword. That makes no sense at all but presumably it comes from their German parent? As you say David…insane…..and getting much worse.

Maybe let the dogsbody actually forge the actual blade as well? Really, would competent smiths spend time making knife blades?? Never thought about that before. Even wonder if there were specialist kogatana makers from whom you could purchase blades and then put any old name on them.

Hi Geraint….No I was not teasing! I simply had not twigged these are made from pressed plates! I took one look at the description and another at the quality and simply thought they look heavily restored crap!. Being honest I’m not at all familiar with this type of tsuba. So the ura and omote plates are pressed or stamped as per shiremono kozuka? Are they all this bad? Another way to create the Mino Goto look without the effort? Imo the gilding or whatever it is has been re-done with modern gold plating fluid and hasn’t been done well (usually you use masking fluid to protect areas that you don’t want gilded (as per a restorer I know)) …… as you said earlier….learning every day!

So, to continue the discussion constructively, have a look at this daisho pair on eBay.. First glance you might be tempted to say WOW - but look closely. Have the customary Nagoya mono tagane ato been disguised by punching over them? Look at the really poor quality of the nanako and the poor definition of the seppadai. The heavily rippled plate. The poor definition in the flowers. Then look closely at the gold paint (?) / gilding (?)…..it looks too fresh, too new, and look at how it has spread around many edges of the flowers etc ….looks like it has oozed/flowed onto the plate. It shouldn’t look like that. Nagoya mono daisho tsuba are known to exist. Now, do alarm bells start ringing? Mine do. https://www.ebay.com/itm/356533197486?_skw=daisho+tsuba&itmmeta=01JKQH87YJJVR3K2FWZ75NDH4W&hash=item530308daae:g:Lf4AAOSwZ~NnobvT&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKklPYAfvVjm6mBHHLBasZnwpd57rVVQze96nh%2BTE%2F8q7cnwkkEPrhU%2BDAf%2FLQHFE4nSYWq1fLbz5r2jYXxCTDAhudJihLucxYvTi9zFP1JWY2goCM%2FkYGaIs8F%2FMZgSoDPATgP4P%2B5znsJfd1y2OW7wTb6UmvWr4%2B3%2BlECfeThgT9kirHol7Vw3LAympcR4KPNQUQr96b76IP13EtIWz9nGF14XfPCmL2idnYovXMzwBnG9Gza1LHdt583ygmn4aAIlV%2BQtKwYVwugsjc0FnpxiuC9ZoHH0NUATMG8e0GWMrw%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR7b_oPGdZQ

Ignore all signatures on kogatana. 99% of the time they are “tribute” ie basically fake and are no indicator of age or anything else. However I’d like to know why this particular widespread practice arose……why put these wrong Mei on these small blades? Anyone?

No, just trying to stay factually accurate. Bye then.

Good job I’m not as sensitive (or rude) as you obviously are. I’m guessing yours would be a rather short list yes? I don’t think the artists I mentioned are s**t but you possibly haven’t heard of half of them?

You just keep on digging Franco. Now you introduce an air of condescension into the thread. Again I suggest you re-read the thread.……and you will see they are not “my tsuba” but a very apt and suitable Lot from Bonhams that perfectly illustrated the actual subject under discussion……which most who took part in found useful.

OK Franco…..tell me which of these artists you have actually owned and/or paid huge money to get restored by the best restorers in the world….. Kano Natsuo Unno Shomin Ozeki Yamada Motonobu Hasegawa Issei Iwamoto Konkan Kajima Ikkoku Suzuki Chokichi Kanazawa Doki Kaisha Sano Takachika …..and many more …..I’m talking Khalili quality metalwork, the very finest ever made. No, avoid the bottom and work your way up. Is that so difficult to understand. Now just go away and annoy someone else. You are making yourself look deliberately obtuse.

Are you so blind that you cannot see that that alone is a valuable lesson? If it helps anyone to avoid buying poor quality that has to be a good thing…..Yes or No will do. Again you entirely miss the point. It was never the intention to illustrate the finest pieces…..it was exactly the opposite….to illustrate the poorer pieces thus trying to give a few warnings/pointers to watch out for. I suggest you actually carefully re read the thread, and then go argue with someone else because you’re in a hole and still digging.

Many thanks. Sounds like you might have had a rough time……Hope things have improved and welcome back.

Good for you. Shame your knowledge couldn’t pick out the better quality one from the two Nagoya Mono. Everyone else got the drift of my light hearted teaser but you choose to complicate it. That was not what I said nor what I asked. Again that is not what I asked. I did not ask to rank them, just pick the best one and it’s pretty obvious when you know what to look for. By having a thorough understanding of the different methods of construction, the alloys used and by handling all qualities from Natsuo to Nagoya mono…..everything in between. The difference between overlay and inlay and the different methods of inlay. The different methods of texture and patina creation. The difference between cast vs cast and hand finished vs fully hand carved from scratch etc etc etc Please be serious. In my opinion you have just decided to be bloody minded and try to spoil a simple attempt to illustrate the difference between Nagoya Mono and the real deal. I posed the question because many are getting caught out by not being able to differentiate. PLEASE go and argue with someone else or start your own thread. I await that with interest.