reinhard

A simple question for those still sticking to the ShinTo theory: The sword is either suriage or strongly machi-okuri. What is sugu-yakidashi doing up there? reinhard

For consideration: Suishinshi MASAHIDE, famous founder of ShinShinTo movement and teacher of NAOTANE, died in 1826. Taikei NAOTANE was made "Mino no Suke" in 1848. If this mei is genuine, it is probably a later generation MASAHIDE involved here. reinhard

Calm down, Fritz. This has nothing to do with you or your questions. I was referring to one particular answer. reinhard

What I called "Meiji boys" were the (mostly) western foreigners, who invaded Japan during later 19th century and didn't have a clue. Some of them traded "masterpieces" for "glass beads". At least, that's what they told their customers in the west. This kind of business is still going on, BTW. reinhard

Here we go: There are quite a few people, who make an easy living by telling their customers just what they want to hear. Among them are many amateur dealers with a couple of books at hand and self-declared "professional" polishers, who did stages in Japan. Most often the only thing they have in common with their teachers are their prices. Some of them see their business in danger, threatened by a forum like NMB and internet in general. Why not join in and trying to manipulate it? However, telling people, that "gimei is ok too" and poor trash is acceptable, as long as it it looks Japanese, is contradictory to everything this board is dedicated to. Maybe I'll be gone within a couple of years, but I really do wish, the crooks will be gone before. reinhard

Gimei? No problem. Fittings of the poorest kind? "Modest but average". Age or quality of a blade? Who cares? It's probably Japanese and therefore a little piece of art. Let's reduce NMB to the question: Is it of Japanese origin or not? We can take things easy again and play the game like most of the Meiji boys did. No more painstaking research, no more disappointing answers. It looks Japanese from a distance? Great! Any more questions? reinhard

Come on boys, who's going to tell him? reinhard

Peter, Meikan lists only one YASUMITSU (written with these kanji) working during ShinTo period (Enpo-era). His name was Uemura YASUMITSU and he worked in Kii province. He belonged to the Kishu Ishido group and it is said, there was a second generation working around Genroku era. These two can be safely excluded. There is no Bizen YASUMITSU working during ShinTo or ShinShinTo times to be found, neither in Hawley's nor any other compilation I checked. Hawley mentions one though working during early Meiji period. I don't know anything about this one, but Meiji ToKo are somewhat beyond my focus. After all, the mei looks gimei to me. It is "just" semantics, but for the newbies: it is SUGU-yakidashi pointing towards ShinTo. Yakidashi just means: the area of hamon about two or three inches above the ha-machi. Almost every NihonTo has yakidashi in some shape or another (except some very old swords, whose hamon starts a few inches above hamachi). reinhard

The tsuba in question reminds me of one in the Compton collection made of silver. reinhard

Moses came down and I'm shaking in my shoes. reinhard

John, finding a ....roku nengo with enough years to fit in, is a somewhat ....unorthodox way to evaluate a smith. A mei: "Bishu Osafune SUKESADA", dating from Genroku period, written like that, is highly unlikely. The sword was sold as gimei, probably for good reasons. I guess we should leave it at that. reinhard

Cliff, This nick is no serious problem. Regular sword-care, including light oiling, will remove the newer rust from this spot and seal it up. reinhard

Mark, The mei is in all probability gimei. Shodai YASUMITSU, working during Oei era in Bizen, signed his blades either with a nijimei of his name or "Bishu Osafune YASUMITSU", sometimes including his title "Uemon-no-Jo", but he never omitted "Osafune". The mei "Bishu (no) Ju YASUMITSU" (mei on your sword) is highly untrustworthy. To some extent, this is true for his successors as well, working during Muromachi period. Other details pointing towards gimei are its overall writing style and minor details like the first stroke of the kanji "YASU" pointing towards wrong direction. No expertise, of course, but personally I wouldn't bet anything on this mei. reinhard

Is this "we" talk a kind of "majestic attitude"? I'm Swiss and hearing from nobilities makes me think of heads on poles. reinhard

Ted, Meikan lists two TSUNASHIGE in Sagami. One was working around Tenbun- and the other around Eiroku-era. reinhard

True, but this goes for important "customers" of NBTHK as well. On NBTHK or on Tanzan? I don't agree. Especially when it comes to mumei blades. Early Hon'ami appraisers saw many swords in a healthier and more "honest" condition than we see them nowadays. This goes for Kanzan and Kunzan as well to some extent. It is stunning to see, how mediocre blades, improved by newer polishing techniques, recently gained Juyo papers and appear to be masterpieces, all of a sudden and spectacularly healthy, neglected and overlooked during the last 400 years before. Tanzan is widely accepted to be the best for Kanteisho NOWADAYS, even by his critics. Wether he surpassed his teacher(s) or not, I don't dare to say. I don't agree. There have been made strange attributions to Yamashiro Rai-school recently. There are others, whose word and knowledge really counts. This is too simple an argument. - Being a member of NBTHK for some years now and usually defending them, you put me into the role of "advocatus diaboli". I don't know yet, if I like the part, but the discussion is overdue. reinhard

This statement should be taken with reserve. Early attributions made by Hon'ami masters during Momoyama and early Edo-period are of supreme quality. These attributions were usually given to blades after painstaking research and free from favouritism. Attributions given by Kotoku, Kojo or Kochu can greatly add to the value of a blade. - However, during later Edo- and early Meiji-period, Hon'ami family got into trouble and sometimes issued origami/kinpun-mei/kin-zogan mei as favours to Daimyo-families in order to make a living. These origami/kinpun-mei/kin-zogan mei are not always reliable and sometimes confusing. Hon'ami Nishu was a post-war expert polisher of extra-class and probably more independent, than most of his predecessors during late 19th/early 20th century. His (rare) kiwame are, if genuine, probably quite trustful. reinhard

No trap. My English used to be better twenty years ago, when I made far more use of it. I mentioned it because of semantic misunderstandings in the past and my tone. It eventually sounded harsher to native speakers than I intended to. reinhard

That's almost it. Just a few remarks: This school in Chikuzen province is sometimes called "Kongobei" and sometimes "Kongobyoe". The kiwame goes on with: "jidai" (era) TENBUN (sometimes named TENMON) "koro" (at that time). Nagasa: Ni (two) shaku (two/three?) sun (I'm not sure about this one)........ The name of the appraiser is Hon'ami NISHU (+Kao) Maybe kind Moriyama-san will fill the remaining holes. reinhard

Chris, SEIKEIDO has a very nice Minryushi TOSHIZANE katana for sale right now. It might be interesting for you to compare these two swords: http://www.nona.dti.ne.jp/~sword/katana/toshizane.html BTW, some of the pics there are very well illustrating how to make hamon visible in photographs and not just depicting hadori finish. reinhard

Before starting any action you should know exactly what F/K (or any other tosogu) are made of. Some alloys and their patination are rather robust, but others are extremely delicate and once removed, some surfaces/colors can never be restored in the way their maker intended them to look like. Ford's the man to give particular advice. reinhard

As for the smith: KIYOMARO and SANEO were trained by Kawamura TOSHITAKA of Hamabe school. A native of Inaba province, he later moved to Shinano province and worked there for the Ueda family. Your sword is signed: TOSHIZANE. He was also a master of Hamabe school, but remained in Inaba province and took the name Minryushi. He was not connected to Yamaura-school as far as I know. Always suggested that it is this TOSHIZANE meant here. reinhard

Nick, you may be right, but I have seen several Seki-style blades just like this one, made during early Showa period and mounted for ShinGunTo later. Not only its ugly bo-hi and oversized mekugi-ana give this blade a doubtful appearance. "Fat" sugata and careless yasurime are also pointing towards a newer date of manufacture. Even a badly deformed ShinTo blade keeps at least some of its features, but I can't see any of them here. - All in all, it looks more like a Chinese fake than a ShowaTo, but who knows by now? reinhard

Shan, Markus' remarks are by no means cryptic. They are just polite and he's perfectly right in pointing out the poorly cut bo-hi and other suspicious features. - The comparison of blades you are presenting is no help at all. It's just one blade's sugata compared to others (confirmed in any way?). - No matter what the honey-dipper says: There are no "great looking hataraki" visible in your pics, it's just poor condition of the blade. The blade looks like any 20th century Seki-style blade by now. Garlic again. reinhard

Nhan, traditional polish is not a perfectly uniform procedure. Polishing techniques changed slightly during history and polishers started etching blades during late Edo and Meiji-period. From what I have seen in museums, etching in the later 19th century was a superficial finish only and did not create any relief pattern. Nie-based features like chikei, kinsuji, sunagashi and the like appear extremely flashy at the expense of nioi-guchi. However, I have never come across a top-quality blade (Ichimonji f.e.) "improved" by etching. All examples I have seen up to now are either mid- to low-quality blades from bakumatsu-era or crude gimei. Etching gained some popularity again recently, but is mainly applied to ShinSakuTo, if at all. Here's an example of a (hozon token) katana by MICHITOSHI from Edo, dated Bunkyu 3rd year (1863). It has been slightly etched. reinhard