ChrisW

Yup! We'll see you there!

On an out-of-polish blade, shintetsu will be hard to spot, but they will show up as patches of darker colored steel. They are much easier to spot on a blade that has a decent level of polish intact. I can see what appears to be kinsuji. Other than that, I can't discern much else. I would get a polisher's or a fellow collector's opinion in person; photos online can only do so much, especially with regards to an out-of-polish piece. The relative thinness of the blade compared to the nakago means a high probability of the blade being tired alone; but construction really does matter, so it may still yet have some life in it. That is a question for a polisher though.

Hard to tell definitively, but there appears to be a lot of ware for an Edo blade and that is never a good sign. The blade has the appearance of being acid-washed (damaged) from the overall milky/cloudiness. The only way to be certain would be to get it in front of a trained polisher to ask their opinion.

You are correct in your assumption that the signature on the kogatana is likely unrelated to the larger blade itself. The condition of everything appears to be really nice though! The blade looks to be late Shinto or Shinshinto in age based purely on the patination of the nakago/ crispness of the yasurime, but I have been incorrect before.

There should be some members in the area. If not, the Chicago sword show is coming up!

I think your next step would be having your friend find someone close to whom he can take the blade to and get an in-hand opinion. Pictures online can only show so much detail. If you're in the Indiana area, I can help. If not, there's plenty of members on either coast to ask as well!

There is no reason EVER for anyone to ever use an antique Japanese-made anything to do 'cutting tests' with. Please do not consider using any nihonto for cutting tests as you will likely destroy the object in question. It takes years of training and practice to use a Japanese blade that non-Japanese martial arts cannot prepare you adequately to do so. Most martial arts use modern-made cutters for this purpose, if at all. Seeing how thin this blade already is, you will likely destroy it. I would reconsider heavily. If you are curious about destructive tests for Japanese swords, the work has already been done a century ago or more and you can read the results. I can promise you, that short of being ground flat, and to slight varying degrees that all Japanese swords are SHARP and will cut. By design, their edges will chip before they roll over and go dull. Lastly, if you are foolhardy still and determined to ruin another blade, I can guarantee that people here will avoid helping you in the future for fear that you'll keep doing it. Using Japanese swords for anything other than study and appreciation will draw askance glares here. https://markussesko.com/2019/08/27/destructive-sword-testing/ http://www.nihontocraft.com/Suishinshi_Masahide.html http://www.nihontocraft.com/Aratameshi_Nihonto.html and http://www.nihontocraft.com/Nihonto_cold_weather.html

Shape of the nakago, relative closeness of the mekugi-ana seems like suriage would be unnecessary. I would get that blade coated in some choji oil or mineral oil asap. Maybe even a light amount on the nakago on some of the red rust spots. Red rust = bad. Black rust = good (it is stable and doesn't degrade the metal as fast + used to date the blade). Don't let him try to do anything else to 'fix' the blade. That is best left to professionals.

For $10, he got a real antique Japanese sword which is something I can say I haven't done yet! Well done. You'll have to wait for those more experienced than I to make a judgement about its manufacture, but it looks ubu (original length).

I rather like this one!

Matter of the fact is, when people came to the consensus that the signature is gimei, you chose to respond in a manner other than acceptance of the majority opinion of people who are much more educated in the subject and then argued about it ad nauseum. You denigrated peoples' time and knowledge put into this study, and then proceeded to gaslight in an attempt to backpedal. You are discussing in bad faith and using just about every trick to be the victim. Example- "Are you above my contribution? I'll send you 50 USD right now, just say the word, and my money is yours. Also, my sword account serves emperor administrator Brian, if I am no use I will happily end my life stop posting. " Brian is right. Its a lovely sword. Yes, it is probably gimei. And people here generally have a good sense of what signatures should look like in order to pass Shinsa (the bar to which gimei/shoshin is held). So... cut the crap and just be honest. If you are being earnest, then let it go. People gave their time to help you. You saying anything more is just trolling and wasting peoples' time. If you don't like the opinion, go elsewhere and ask; but I imagine you'll either hear the same or opinion shop until you hear what pleases you. You cannot claim to be joking in an endearing manner when people are attempting to help you. I've said my piece and will give no more time in this discussion. You got what you asked for, not necessarily what you want, but what was called for. Brian, I am sure you've already checked this guy's IP against known elements.

I don't have a horse in this race, so to speak. However, you came here with intention to seek their opinions, you got it and then you decided you didn't like what you heard. Gimei is very common and means very little in terms of what the sword's actual quality could be. There are gimei swords out there made by VERY prominent smiths whom have a much lower-regarded gimei signature. Often, those false signatures are removed and then the blade papers just fine. In the case of your sword, I would take it to a Japanese sword show and show it to a trained polisher... or bite the bullet and sign up for a Shinsa slot. But I have to agree with the others here, even to my relatively inexperienced eye, the signature appears a bit too clumsy and chunky compared to a legitimate Sukekane mei. Think of this as a forensic handwriting comparison. This is a real Japanese sword, seemingly well-made, but the signature does not match how Sukekane signed. BUT the work could still be papered to him, on workmanship alone, but that signature poses a problem it would appear. As for the debate on terminology: these words aren't academic words (though proper terms are favored in academia), they're merely best-fit descriptors that quite literally describe as they appear. If anyone of the samurai class were alive today to read these words in their native kanji, they'd understand them because they are simple, best-fit words. Nihonto collecting has always been a well-regarded tradition in Japan, so it'd be unlikely that they'd laugh or be offended by foreigners collecting them. I think they'd be more offended that someone didn't take the time to be studious enough to use the proper names for something and instead fumble about what they're trying to describe. Lastly, YES, collectors DO get a lot of books! It is necessary to educate yourself much as you would get a college education by 'hitting the books' in a field where there is a lot of technical knowledge. Books are cheaper, easier to preserve, and contain a lot more information in a much denser space. It would be insanity to even try to understand ANY of the Gokaden (the five great sword traditions) or even minor schools based on example blades alone; books are necessary to begin to have a solid grasp. If you don't believe me, talk to any properly-trained sword polisher alive today. These gentlemen offered you their sincere and educated opinions free of charge, not something you can really get in any other field without forking over money or waiting a long time. You might not like the result and may be disappointed with it, but neither should you be an ungrateful guest by acting in such a manner. And FYI, no, we all come from different walks of life, nationalities, etc.

You've bought a mumei wakizashi from Komonjo. Is it real? Yes. Is it worth the money you spent? Probably not. Out-of-polish mumei wakizashi are not a good buy and are generally not worth putting money into for restoration. This particular example doesn't have much to study that can be seen in pictures either. It is hira-zukuri, but the sugata (shape) seems a bit off to me. That or the angle at which the photos capturing it are exceedingly poor.

I have a Takeyasu as well and it has the higaki yasurime as well. Suguha hamon. Here is mine (and yes, it was a Komonjo; got a good price on it):

One of our members is going actually! I haven't decided if I am going or not.

Agreed!

The next ITK meeting is on March 4th, 10 a.m. It will be held in the Morgan County Public Library in downtown Martinsville, IN. Message me with any questions you may have! The meeting topic is: Photography of Nihonto/Shinsa and Show Preparations. Our group members will be bringing some of the finest blades they have for the session. Expect to see some really nice pieces!

Thank you for the invite Mark! I'll pass this along to our members.

If you're really set on buying nihonto, you should buy from known dealers (listed on this site) or buy from the many folk on the forums here. This site is always a safe bet since its pretty much self-filtering and reputation is everything. My thoughts on the item: Its real, but low-end late Edo, possibly for export. It could possibly be a put-together by a less-scrupulous dealer and then sold as a complete item. The ito looks fairly new and might be very recent, or could just be young and well-preserved (but still overall low-end). Can't really say anything about the blade since its not really visible in any of the photos provided.

I had this same thought too with regards to the measurements given.

Agreed! A shame it is now only wakizashi length. Is there any visible grain you can capture in a photo?

Apologies for interjecting and without having seen the blade, but could also possibly be this guy: Kanesaki: https://nihontoclub.com/smiths/KAN2117

I agree with Brian here. You can at least talk to a polisher like Ten Tenold, Woody Hall, or Bob Benson and ask for their opinion. The Chicago Sword Show is also coming up in April and you could meet with some of those polishers there.

Nothing there is worth your time I believe. The one "katana" looks like a Chinese fake to me. The others are either lodge/fraternal order swords (which really aren't worth it either) or are reproductions.

That picture is both beautiful and a reminder of how flaws can quickly come to the surface and what allows for the durability of nihonto. This ought to be framed and put on a wall!