Blazeaglory

This thread is actually very informative!

Which is exactly what I said in post #11 but with an additional theory on forged date during, or close to, era's of war, using exact Suriage length as an additional indicator of possibility and finally chiseled vs. drilled ana could give a good indicator, imho, when and possibly how, the sword was broken. Basically, you have higher % of swords being broke in a fight against an enemy samurai/enemy sword during periods of ongoing conflict/war, than being broke by random accident or unforeseen events during that same period... More so, IMO, if the sword isnt close to a "standard decreed official length". For what its worth, It wasnt a blanket statement in regards to every shortened/Suriage Nihonto. Were saying the same thing more or less but I'm adding a controversial idea/theory for conversation Maybe its trash, maybe not. But it does make for a good debate! Its all in good spirit!

Makes me realize, as I stare at all of my Koshirae material, how much of a procrastin....busy person I am. Well done on the koshirae! Inspiring!

I wouldn't have chosen Rai school either but to each their own. To clarify my earlier post in regards to Gunto... I think ultimately what I dislike, or whatever, is the idea that Imperial Japan tried dressing up a piece of steel (for the most part), calling it Nihonto and imbuing it with this radicalized fantasy of Bushido... Its like looking at a fake Abraham Lincoln photo circa the years immediately after his death... The idea of the photo (scam) was to trick a person/persons into paying for a photo, of a man, who supposedly was Lincoln. The crooks knowingly plagiarized Abraham Lincolns image to deceive people. They knew people were still longing for whatever hope or love the past had inspired. To me the Gunto is more representative of Imperial Japans delusions than anything else. But thats not to say that I hate the sword or collector

Thanks again for all the info!

True but we can gather that a shortened sword that is regulation length would be more likely shortened edo/late edo under forced regulations. Not all, maybe some happened to be shortened with that "regulated" length prior but how many? Few Im guessing and coincidence. Whereas a Koto blade shortened and not meeting regulated length could be either, shortened during Koto times, pre-regulation from war or any other mishap or shortened during peacetime, after regulation and the owner just failed to follow the law? Im just throwing out theories of averages, not quoting any factual info or making dedicated predictions. Of course shortened blades have multiple possibilities for being shortened but following the regulated length only occurred at specific times throughout Japans history, therefore narrowing down a time and with other factors, a possible reason. True tho, nothing in this field is for certain! I just like to play out scenarios in my head Koto blades, forged prior or during Wartime, would lend to a higher amount of broken, Suriage/Osuriage and non regulation length swords IMO. I've read writings of multiple families gathering bits and pieces of swords from Koto battlefields afterwards. Some families finding dozens of their families blades broken. Using the above logic(or ill-logic haha) I then look at the ana with a new light. Although knowing blades during Koto time have smooth ana, it kinda adds a variant. But the usual method of "quick judging" ana would be, Koto=chiseled and Shinto/Shinshinto=smooth, with individual cases varying but the majority holding true to that theory right?

I agree but I tend to look at which era the blade was forged and compare to contemporary conflict. For instance, a blade forged in the Sengoku period that isnt a standard length, is O-suriage and has chiseled ana would likely be broken and remade from being broken in battle. Whereas a Koto blade that has been cut down to a specific size and has a smooth ana, would lean towards a later Suriage. I know the possibilities are many but I feel the era and length play a big part, then moving on to the ana. Does that make sense? lol

Yes. Even tracing the path to the ultimate uniform hamon is annoying. Its like you can see the pile-up happening. I can totally see the inspiration for those Chinese blades, which makes it worse IMHO. Although I really dont consider 1st and 2nd gen Kanemoto/Magoroku with any others after. Only by family name and the school but the uniqueness and individuality was lost I think

I hated Sanbonsugi before I knew what Mino or who Kanemoto was but after looking at it and its multiple layers, ghosting effects and, depending on angle and lighting, what look to be 3 different areas of Hadori/Hamon/Utsuri that appear/disappear. Not to mention the agility and grace from a low shinogi, lending to extreme sharpness. This isnt a plug for Kanemoto, just my POV...Im hooked on the top MIno and Seki smiths Anyways, early Kanemoto non uniform Sanbonsugi is more appealing to me than the later years. The hamon in later gens becomes too sterile and mass produced looking. Whereas the first and second gen had some real "free spirited" hamons. I love 1st and 2nd gen Sanbonsugi but after that, I cant stand it. The early hamon reminds me of a snapping alligator jaw. But I wonder sometimes, did the collector hate Sanbonsugi prior to my posts? Or after LOL Also, in regards to a wide Hamon...Ill put my 'possible' Shinto Hizen Wakizashi up against any Koto "war time blade" of similar length. The Kirikomi can attest to its prowess haha

That is partially the reason Im asking. I was looking at a nakago that I think is Shinto but close enough to being Koto that its in that "window" I was mentioning. But now that I have read all of the responses above, I can see its not so straight forward. The Mekugi-ana on the blade I was looking at, at first glance, has a really smooth, perfect "hole" but upon closer inspection, there are MANY tiny chisel marks throughout the entire thing, with matching rust. It just adds to the confusion. Its a possible Hizen blade, mumei.

Ok, that's what I was thinking as well, or I that seems to be the general consensus? I would assume that during the transition period from end of Muriomachi, through Momoyama and into the early Edo, we would see blades that have both chisel and "new style", eventually as time went by, less chisel mekugi-ana, correct? After that, any chiseled mekugi-ana were usually a sign of a smith trying to make a blade look older than it truly was? Or maybe they just continued the chiseling technique? Im just thinking out loud and trying to figure out if it went out of fashion due to the time and effort involved, with the new methods being faster and easier. Or if any smiths continued the chiseling throughout Shinto and Shinshinto.

I'm thinking more along the lines of, for instance when a member says, "nakago looks chiseled, so probably Koto". And we can usually see chisel marks. Then, for Shinto swords, the "chiseling" turned into something else... I dont really know what though. Maybe some kind of lathe or drill driven by water or wind, mule? I think the period is at end of Muromachi or early Edo?

Your website is coming along great! I like how its laid out and easy to follow. And I learned something today, satsu-age. Thanks!

OK Please forgive me. I know this is a "known" topic but for the life of me I cannot find the darned answer. Generally, what year or Era did the nakago of the blade, specifically the Mekugi Ana, go from "chiselled" to "drilled/lathed". Im guessing the chiselling ended during or after the Kanbun era? Prior?

My choice isnt really a school per-say but an era..., Im thinking, if I voice my choice, I fear that I will become hated more so than I already am... But, Ill voice it anyways...My choice is GUNTO. There, I said it. This is only my opinion, so please dont take it too personally. I know this is a serious era for Nihonto and a delicate subject To start, the basic design of the first Gunto seemed to resemble "Western" swords in style. And I don't think we can even consider Showato a true Nihonto? Shin Gunto at least were based on older Koto blades but the uniformity and mass produced look just doesn't appeal to me. But still, for some reason, I dont know what the hype is surrounding these blades. Other than the WW2 aspect and the occasional good smith or rare koshirae, I cant find justification in spending the amount of $$$ that I see being spent. Ok, I dont hate Gunto Nihonto (or Japanese swords) but I do not find them attractive. Once in a while, a nice high ranking koshirae grabs my attention but other than that, I have no interest. I also highly respect the history that goes along with Gunto, from the creation to the destruction and the subsequent "take home" stories" Now, Koto family blades that are wrapped in Gunto mounts/koshiarae, I dont mind. I actually think those items are very interesting. Also, please, I'm not trying to disrespect WW2 veterans or say anything negative about Gunto swords. They're just not my cup of tea. As far as actual "Schools" go, I haven't really thought of it. I like them all each in an individual way.

You had this made for you Rayhan? If, so, WELL DONE! IM JEALOUS! lol Either way, looking at the pics, its a very solid looking blade!

As stated above, I would start with, "The Connoisseurs Book of Japanese Swords", by Kokan Nagayama. It is probably one of the best sources for beginners (and pros alike!). It can be a little daunting at first but my advice would be to find that book and read it slowly, over time, as well as keeping it handy for constant reference. I can tell you that I am always running to that book to cross check one thing or verify another. Also, try to get to as many Nihonto shows, or similar events, as you can. In the mean while, read as much as you can on this message board and look at as many photos of different types (schools, smiths, etc...) as you can. .

Excellent! Makes perfect sense!

Thanks but I think I found it. It looks almost exactly the same but with a kozuka/kogatana hole right? Price it $79 plus shipping I think. But at this point I dont know if this is a modern reproduction or a late Edo. I have a Ko-Kinko Tsuba from Muromachi that resembles this one, so I think if its late Edo, they were trying to copy the style maybe? Seems too perfect or something tho. Cant put my finger on it. Really what Im looking for atm is a pair of nice Wakizashi sized Menuki. Something very nice with a strong vibe.

No. I know which one you're talking about tho. Im more interested in closed, flat, "forged look" design

Yeah now that you guys mention it, I think I am more impressed by the detail and work than the color combo. I mean, maybe the black and gold would work but the spots/circles, I could do without. Also, maybe have 2 separate designs instead of a pair of identical (side/back view) shishi. At least a frontal view

I noticed that as well. I think it's that edge which kinda protrudes a bit on the bottom/underside on the right? As if it should have been filed or something after casting to blend in? Is that what we're looking at? If it is, does that mean modern (possibly Chinese) recreation? Or possibly just late Edo or newer? Well, thanks for the info. I like this one but the "somewhat too good" state of condition, makes me hesitant to purchase.

Wow. Very nice collection! And God bless that old woman's husband for having such a great eye for detail! Well done to both of them for being, what looks to be, awesome caretakers of the many wonderful tsuba!

Well, this is the second time I've missed the boat (so to speak) in this same fashion within the past year... First time was a very nice Shibuichi tanto sized tsuba that a fellow member had shown to me. By the time I saved enough cash for purchase, it was sold the day prior. Now, today, I go to my eBay watch list to make an offer on a pair of papered Menuki. They are different and maybe not everyone's cup of tea, but for some reason they stood out to me and caught my attention. Anyways, long story short, they were sold TODAY! I've been watching them for all of 2018 too lol What say everyone? Horribly ugly? Or uniquely beautiful? P.S. If I may ask, if the person who purchased these is a member here, feel free to contact me and I'll make you an offer you can't(but probably will) refuse. But in all seriousness, nice purchase my friend.

Hello all. I wanted to run this by everyone and get some opinions. Appears legit? Looks to be Ko-Kinko(or not haha)? Or possible modern replica? Also, I know forged vs. cast and the associated terms but what to look for when identifying "cast marks" or similar? To me, casting always looks too perfect in form but yet not appealing in detail or quality (mostly anyways) Have at it! Thanks