Curran

Higo Kinko Taikan anyone? Mine is in storage for the winter. I'm more curious about the old Tachibana design, as I see it in Edo fittings and armor fairly often. It is more allusion, or did it have a more concrete meaning or association during the Edo period?

See this design as a family insignia? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachibana_clan_%28kuge%29 I see variations of this design on fittings, but not knowledgeable about the Japanese families. Example: http://page9.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/k150677999

It would seem the shoe lace from my old gym sneakers has been reborn as the ito on his sword.

So Jimmy Hoffa ain't dead?

El Lotte- yo tampoco.... ahora = $450,000,000.00 or 5.5 billion pesos.

Unno Moritoshi menuki

Jean, You would be correct. However, in the instance I am thinking: it was the tsuba that indicated specific rank. Ie. I'm a 5 star general, you are a 3 star, and he is a 1 star general. When you discuss the pre-edo fittings where it is not about the tsuba, but the other items- there I still have much to learn. Seen the images, text, and diagrams in the books discussing such stuff, but not gotten myself and translator to that end of the rather big pool. I don't know what is written in English and where. I just know the answer to, "did tsuba *ever* indicate rank" = yes. (at least in some pre-Edo instances)

I haven't read Skip's article. Some pre-Edo tsuba clearly indicate rank. Clearly.... I thought it was public domain knowledge. Nope- can't evidence it at the moment. Only know of a few examples in the west. Would need to have two or three images along with period koshirae to illustrate, and I know it is verboten to use the images shared with me. Even then, I'd have doubters until I got an NBTHK letter to back it up (love how they still do the whole red-white-blue airmail hand written thing). I think I can illustrate it with some in the Tokyo Museum book or with books I have, but not sure. Thanks to Storm Sandy, my wall o' books are stored up north for the winter. Sorry guys, but you asked an interesting question at an awkward time. If I didn't know better, I'd say this thread was set up to jerk around some of us having a private correspondence not too far back. That is as far as I can go into it now.

Especially good condition iron higo f/k. One restorer realized this early and bought up whatever he could find. Another restorer offered me 150% for a set he'd sold me the year before. Even Cary Condell came to me trying to buy a complete set many years ago. I sold off a papered Inagawa iron set I had of "Daruma" to a New Jersey collector a few years ago, and never seen the like since.

Ken, Skip doesn't 'do Internet'. He's an old style gentleman with a touch of Atticus Finch manners. We swap letters once or twice a year and talk in Tampa. He and Bob Haynes really stand out in the kodogu end of the spectrum when everyone else was focused solely on swords. He corresponds more with a few others on this list. I'm going to sidestep any row or flamewar here. Also got a long day ahead, so may not respond for a bit. I sort of took what Skip said as already established, and am surprised it is debated. There wasn't a rigid system from top to bottom, but there were court rules and in some instances battlefield rules. The private doesn't wear Inspector General's insignia (unless a movie staring Danny Kaye). I think there are examples of this as far back as Kamakura - Nambokuchu tsuba. Others might be able to illustrate further back based on certain kodogu I am thinking about, but I can only say with certainty that the tsuba thing goes back to the Mongolian Invasion period. I don't have my Nihonto Kodogu books for the winter, so cannot really illustrate this. It is as Skip says, much akin to general's stars and lieutenant's bars. I think it is less straightforward during Edo period, but still a sense of do n don't based on rank. EDIT: Reading Tom's and some of the other posts, I guess I should make it clear- Some of the pre-Edo tsuba were every bit as Overt as 4 star general insignia vs 1 star insignia vs major. I don't know about lower ranks.

"Fürwhar" oder Fürwahr? Lucky lotto ticket right here.... If we win the grand prize, then free Juyo for each of the current admins (Brian, John, Jean) and for Pete. The rest will get a Nihonto Lottery.

El Lotto, Yo tambien.

Mike, You asked me before what schools I collected. Your Moritoshi is exactly the sort of thing I enjoy. It is well done and has a certain sense of humor to it. Dark as night tiger with gold bright eyes, silver teeth, and a laughing cat smile. It captures the menace of the tiger in the dark, the feline fluidiness, and Cheshire Cat smile of something that knows it is big, bad, and got you dead to rights. ~~~~~The artist isn't a biggest name artist, but he is good. In this example, he's also added a dimension of something specific- sort of the hypnotic threat (the more you look, the more you want to keep looking- though bad for you). These are the fun or interesting sort of mood tsuba that I like having rounding out my small collection. Please consider bringing it to Tampa. I'd benefit from studying this particular fine example of Unno Moritoshi's work.

Herr Richter, Thanks for posting these. Your visual database always amazes me. I thought to begin a visual database with many of the images I catalog, but realize it would probably be better to collaborate with someone like you and one or two others that have assembled what are already very extensive catalogs. In conjunction with Wakayama, the Haynes Index, and some of Mr. Sesko's work- it is nice to imagine it becoming the Kodogu E-Encyclopedia. It would be what we call a nice, "academic labor of love" for the person who can coordinate it. At one letter of the alphabet per month, maybe 2 to 3 years work? In regards to this artist (Umino) Moritoshi: Thanks to you and John and another private party, I have now seen several of his works. He seems very fond of the design of goddess and gods in gold. He is a bit prone to caricature of the faces, but I like his sense of humor in his work.

John- Wow that was fast. Thank you for the information. Yes, Mito work fits with what I am seeing and some of the cartoonish rendering is more the sort of thing I can understand being done in late Edo / Early Meiji as western influence spread. Hope your last storm passed uneventful. Both neighbor and I seem to be out making post summer repairs. If anyone can scan in the reference signature from Wakayama Vol3 page 101, I'd appreciate it. From what John wrote, I'm fairly sure it is authentic work- but good practice to confirm it.

Storm Sandy resulted in all of my Nihonto & Kodogu books spending the winter in northern storage. I am looking at a nice pair of menuki by "Umino Moritoshi". Very complex but slightly unrefined work. Mori as in the mori used for Osafune Morimitsu. Toshi is complexer old form. It may be simplified to new form 'Toshi' in some modern texts. __________________________________________________________ Can anyone scan or type in the appropriate Haynes entry for me? If there is a reference signature in Wakayama or elsewhere, I would also appreciate that very much. I'd much appreciate it, as I am curious about this artist.

Well, as you touched earlier... signature doesn't look so good. See signatures here- http://www.aoi-art.com/sword/wakizashi/12388.html http://www.aoi-art.com/sword/wakizashi/12525.html Easy litmus test with Yasumitsu: Look at far right-hand atari of the 'mitsu' cross-stroke. Genuine Yasumitsu, the *atari* almost always points a little down. Also chisel is a bit narrow, like a fine point pen. Both examples at Aoi Arts show this. ALso, two of Eric's fine examples show this clearly. If atari is 90 degree or points up a bit, then explore further with serious doubts. For such a simple character, Yasumitsu's "Mitsu" is very distinct.

Not collecting until at least a decade after the theft. Curious to see the list. Hawley c.1981, theft:

To be very blunt: if the mei checks out in its current condition, probably $3000 to $4000 the condition is an issue. Also please see thread here for Yasumitsu information: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14100 Healthy papered Oei Yasumitsu O-tanto command a premium and go for around $8000 to $12000. One on Choshuya.com popped off quickly for around $5000-$5500. The slender wakizashi type turned out in larger numbers after 1410 or so go for less. The Morimitsu example linked has been up for a very long time. The one on Nihonto.com is polished, papered, nice habaki & shirasaya, and has been up for one (to two) years? The Hawley one is akin to them, though Brian is right about the issues and it does look more like a boy's sword or a very polished down altered slender wakizashi. The spread on Yasumitsu work is rather wide. The best Yasumitsu tachi command over 6 figures. A slender later Yasumitsu "wak" in questionable condition will be decidedly in the 4 figure camp. Not $30000.

Lovely tsuba. It would have been exactly my cup of tea a few years ago. David's was almost certainly a "Kaneyama" a bit heavy on the Owari feel, but I think it should be classified as one of the late Momoyama - Very Earliest Edo Kaneyama that enjoyed a period of en vogue. The carbon nodules are almost too prominent little heads and have sort of been shaved around or finessed to be highlighted so clearly. Everything else looks right. Now the funny thing is that the NBTHK, depending on the year such tsuba go to shinsa, will sometimes give these late momoyama - earliest Edo examples calls to Kaneyama, Ono, Owari and Shoami, in basically that order of frequency. I've seen one tsuba that got "Shoami" and the owner said it was an idiot call, then waited a few years and sent it back. Second time it got "Kaneyama". I've seen both sets of Hozon papers. With these momoyama-earliest Edo ones, don't be too overconfident that it will paper Kaneyama. NBTHK seems to like to give the sharp stick to the eye on people papering these about 30-40% of the time.

Ezo does not mean Hokkaido. It also certainly includes northern Honshu. Unless these are some of the Yasuchika knock offs, I'm still betting the way I did.

Well, I guess I am the dissenter here. My shoot from the hip impression is very late muromachi or momoyama okimono ko-kinko / kinko menuki. I guess I should choose, so: large (early) momoyama ko-kinko menuki. Not as precise as they could be, but have their own rare appeal. Design is that we see in some of the earlier Muromachi Ezo menuki, but the copper and the rendering looks much more like some of the large copper menuki we see from the late-late Muromachi period on in to Momoyama. Richard George had a large set of Fu Dogs from this period, in similar copper, that he sold years ago. Excellent pieces to study. Finesword.com com has a pair of such okimono late muromachi 'Ezo' menuki of a pine tree motif. They would be slight precursors to these menuki. I always wondered for what sort of koshirae they were intended. Probably only seen a half dozen to eight sets of this type in the past ten years. That is my 2.5 cents.

As FH said, definitely after or somewhat in the style of... Somin. Late Edo.

Taking a break from marathon of work, glad I did and visited NMB. Thanks to Mike and especially Mariusk (thanks for that link), learned a bit more Japanese mythology that I had not known.

I have seen this one before. The image is huge on my screen. ~The thing is people need to zoom out and realize this is a kinko tsuba on the petite side... ~Realize that even as large as it is on the NMB image, the precision of design is still so tight. When viewed in real life and correct scale, it hits that the workmanship is as exact as anything any Swiss watch maker had done. It is what makes Ishiguro work so desirable (and so often gimei). I cannot remember 100%, but I seem to remember the level of detail even includes the bird's tongue as well. Would make your average bench jeweler cry. To do this work nowadays would, in most instances, cost more than buying a papered original.