Curran

Lovely tsuba. It would have been exactly my cup of tea a few years ago. David's was almost certainly a "Kaneyama" a bit heavy on the Owari feel, but I think it should be classified as one of the late Momoyama - Very Earliest Edo Kaneyama that enjoyed a period of en vogue. The carbon nodules are almost too prominent little heads and have sort of been shaved around or finessed to be highlighted so clearly. Everything else looks right. Now the funny thing is that the NBTHK, depending on the year such tsuba go to shinsa, will sometimes give these late momoyama - earliest Edo examples calls to Kaneyama, Ono, Owari and Shoami, in basically that order of frequency. I've seen one tsuba that got "Shoami" and the owner said it was an idiot call, then waited a few years and sent it back. Second time it got "Kaneyama". I've seen both sets of Hozon papers. With these momoyama-earliest Edo ones, don't be too overconfident that it will paper Kaneyama. NBTHK seems to like to give the sharp stick to the eye on people papering these about 30-40% of the time.

Ezo does not mean Hokkaido. It also certainly includes northern Honshu. Unless these are some of the Yasuchika knock offs, I'm still betting the way I did.

Well, I guess I am the dissenter here. My shoot from the hip impression is very late muromachi or momoyama okimono ko-kinko / kinko menuki. I guess I should choose, so: large (early) momoyama ko-kinko menuki. Not as precise as they could be, but have their own rare appeal. Design is that we see in some of the earlier Muromachi Ezo menuki, but the copper and the rendering looks much more like some of the large copper menuki we see from the late-late Muromachi period on in to Momoyama. Richard George had a large set of Fu Dogs from this period, in similar copper, that he sold years ago. Excellent pieces to study. Finesword.com com has a pair of such okimono late muromachi 'Ezo' menuki of a pine tree motif. They would be slight precursors to these menuki. I always wondered for what sort of koshirae they were intended. Probably only seen a half dozen to eight sets of this type in the past ten years. That is my 2.5 cents.

As FH said, definitely after or somewhat in the style of... Somin. Late Edo.

Taking a break from marathon of work, glad I did and visited NMB. Thanks to Mike and especially Mariusk (thanks for that link), learned a bit more Japanese mythology that I had not known.

I have seen this one before. The image is huge on my screen. ~The thing is people need to zoom out and realize this is a kinko tsuba on the petite side... ~Realize that even as large as it is on the NMB image, the precision of design is still so tight. When viewed in real life and correct scale, it hits that the workmanship is as exact as anything any Swiss watch maker had done. It is what makes Ishiguro work so desirable (and so often gimei). I cannot remember 100%, but I seem to remember the level of detail even includes the bird's tongue as well. Would make your average bench jeweler cry. To do this work nowadays would, in most instances, cost more than buying a papered original.

Mike and Jean, Now I'm jealous again. I would have loved to see the Yasutsugu utsushi. As is, the Hirata f/k sold to an NYC club member... wow, studying that kashira under magnification was amazing. Look forward to discussing Higo with you in Tampa, though I admit I rely heavily on books and knowledge of others as I learn in that area. I will be bringing two items worthy of a look. One will be in the NBTHK lecture, though I don't know if you, Ted, or Bob Benson are leading on that.

Mike- Get some rest , and come back when you can. You're posting the sort of stuff that even those of us who have aggressively collected kodogu for many years do not get to see very often unless traveling to Japan. NMB has grown to several thousand members, some whom surprise me with PMs demonstrating they read if they don't actively post. With an audience this large, please learn to overlook the occasional contrary item thrown on stage when you are sharing. These are particularly fine tsuba you have shared, from an area where I have much to learn. Though you and I may have gotten off to a bad introduction many years ago, I respect your info & image sharing as keystone to improving the level of discourse here. You and Ford are primary members when you two can participate. Please keep in it, when you can. I'm also looking forward to images of the ko-katchushi mentioned elsewhere. As I said, get some rest and then join us. Hope to bicker with you over your fine items in Tampa.

It is my opinion that Fred's is a nice Muromachi example. Its size and condition make desirable, though price on these seems to have come down a good bit in recent years. There are others slightly smaller available around the 2.5k to 3k mark in Japan- not selling. Still- size and condition are extremely important. Someone with deep pockets will probably buy this one. There is only 1 that I can think of which would tempt me more, and it is still 'not for sale'. Missed my window of opportunity long ago when it was briefly offered up. As David said, NBTHK has recently been pushing back the giving of Ko-tosho and Ko-katchushi to mid Muromachi. It is a bit confusing, as recently papered "Tosho" and "Katchushi" are sometimes older examples than others with NBTHK papers saying 'Ko-tosho' or 'ko-katchushi'. Ultimately: use your best judgement

Daebak! (ask your wife for translation) That is one robust looking examples. So many of the ones I've seen have been polished down quite a lot to bring out the hada. This one looks elegant, and I wouldn't have a new polish put on it unless something wrong with it. I now understand both the nie and ko-bizen comment. I didn't think it a Tanobe-san sayagaki at first. It looked like his writing with that right hand flair out on certain strokes, but he used a finer brush and wrote so much in a tighter style that I thought it must be someone else with excellent writing style. I hope this one gets displayed at Tampa. Just wow..... I run counter to many in not loving Soshu so much, but this one is smoking beautiful.

Kunitaro-san, thank you for that translation. I plucked out the kin-zogan, Mitsu-tada, and a bit of the rest, but could not have worked out that second sentence. Ray, Yes, I saw from the photo that it was a Norishige and was trying to figure out why the ko-bizen line. This must be a really nice one. Since I've lead the hurricanes away from Florida to New York for 2 years running now (and spared Miami), please humor your fellow Floridian and post at least a partial picture of this blade. Any section of the nice jigane will do, but given the description of shape.... I hope you will post the whole thing. If you don't make it to Tampa, I may need make a trip to Miami.

Wow. Quite a bit there, and more than half of it beyond my ability to read. Nice "Ko-Bizen" and "Especially Precious". If one of the Japanese gents don't help, you might run it against Darcy's guide on such works. You should be able to translate it fairly fast. Harry, Markus, or George Trotter might bang it out too. I'll be curious to read this one when someone responds. That isn't Tanobe-san's handwriting. Whose writing is it?

The Kunisada was mentioned by me in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14101 Geraint and Adam L responded, with Adam showing another sword with the strange extension as on Ed's. I'd seen a few like Ed's listed before where an extension was lapped on and pinned, but never seen one where it was extended with a hollow sleeve extender like on the Kunisada. For the record, I really liked that Kunisada as one of my favorites of the auction. Didn't think I would, but once out of the saya- the sword had lot of personality and the polish was good. However, the extension on the Kunisada wasn't nearly as pleasant as the rest of the blade. The patina was painfully different. It isn't apparent so much in the black and white photos.

Peter, Thank you. The blade is a more polished down than I would have expected, but that sort of full bodied ken horimono is something I have not see often. The signature is very clean and great to study. Hope everyone has themselves a blast at the DTI this year.

Hmm. Anyone able to post a picture of the Nobukuni or the Muramasa?

Peter, Thank you for posting this. I'd purchased catalogs from previous years, but not this year. It does seem there are more top quality items this year. I was curious to see the Juyo Nobukuni tanto (#181) and Juyo Muramasa tanto (#180). I went to the owner-presenter's website and see nothing of that calibre. Are the items listed all for sale, or are many just for show? ___________________________________________________________ Shodai through Oei Nobukuni are tanto are blades I always want to see, though often the katana are less interesting. Yet there was an incredible TOkubetsu Juyo Nobukuni in the USA about 10 years ago. I wish I could see that one again.

Nidai Jingo ala~ 3rd Gen Shimizu. That +1 shift. Many of us here just refer to it as Shimizu gen 2 thru 5 = Jingo 2 thru 5. Bad habit of ours. Should be Shimizu 2 thru 5 = Jingo 1 thru 4. Ron's is probably late Jingo 1 or early Jingo 2. * Note also variation in Japanese writing Jingo between Jingo 1 & 2. Maybe Mike or Michael can illustrate that. Mike's tsuba design seems really popular with Nidai Jingo (3rd Shimizu). This is the 4th example of this one I have seen. Anyone able to explain why Ito-san called this "thunder" or "thunder chain". I don't have his book in front of me, but have always wondered about the origin on that description.

David, What I was getting at is that when we hear Yushu or Juyo, we reflexively think NTHK or NBTHK level rank. If it had been an old Yushu issued by the NTHK, that would have been *much* more interesting. We don't see many Yushu NTHK papers outside of Japan these days. We see high level & low level juyo, with many of the mumei lower level Juyo of the 1970s, 80s, and 90s starting to flood the market a bit. I do not recall seeing 'low level mumei' Yushu. This is not to say they don't exist. As an aside: I don't think I've ever seen a Yushu NTHK fittings paper. That too would be interesting.

I should point out that the Yushu papers on the Muramasa were not from the NTHK. Yushu papers from some lesser or unknown 3rd party don't carry much weight.

The Muramasa: Not an area where I know much. There have been some good threads on NMB in this area. The sword itself was a very nice elegant thing. If mumei, it would have caught my attention. Something about the nakago condition patina or feel said that it was not original, but maybe it was done long ago. The only thing I noted the second time I observed it was an odd scuff and distortion on the edge about 8 to 10 inches from the kissaki. My thoughts were someone couldn't resist to use it to cut something, and did so poorly. One poor cut... bamm, there goes a % of the value. All this said, I still couldn't believe it didn't receive more bids. If the Naotsuna was the high end WTF, then the Muramasa was contender for the low end WTF.

Yasumitsu tachi can be signed both sides. In this thread there are links to (or) pictures of Juyo Yasumitsu tachi signed both sides. Long signature tends to be tachi side.

Adam, I believe I remember that Yasumitsu. It was in Ginza-Choshuya magazine late 2007 or early 2008. I didn't have the money free for it, but I tried to buy it the second I saw it. However, Choshuya said it was already sold. Price was very fair. I thought it a bargain for such a Yasumitsu. In modern 'austerity', I cannot afford a Yasumitsu or Morimitsu tachi. Therefore I look for maybe an exceptional wakizashi by Yasumitsu, Morimitsu, or Iesuke. Yes, the horimono on that Yasumitsu wakizashi was outstanding.... but that wak was also priced about $50,000 when the USD was much stronger. Special wak. Yasumitsu often have horimono, but not as much as Oei Nobukuni. Still, Oei period seems popular for certain types of horimono. Here is another Yasumitsu tachi (w/ horimono) to envy: http://katananokura.jp/SHOP/1208-K02.html

Sam, Please come to the New York Nihonto Club meeting. I believe it will be on October 28th at 12noon in the usual meeting place in Times Square. PM me for further details or visit the website: http://www.ny-tokenkai.org/ny-tokenkai. ... n_Kai.html

This one has a little more kaeri: http://katananokura.jp/SHOP/1206-W05.html Yes, Yasumitsu is the best. Good tachi by him are rare and expensive. However, I think some Iesuke works surpass that of Morimitsu. I have seen an Iesuke naginata that was on par with the best Yasumitsu work. I have always liked Jean's elegant Yasumitsu. Just for fun, I have uploaded some pictures of other nice Yasumitsu that I have in my records.

I gladly defer to Michael. He and Les are the best Jingo collectors in the west that I know. Ron, after your last post I looked at the books and some files I've been building over the years. I associated the outer chain pattern with 3rd gen or later, though i've mostly seen it in silver or silver inlay. Between that and the thinness, I intially thought 3rd Gen. Then seeing your second image, I wondered if it is late second gen. Michael, any insight on ways to distinquish between 2nd and 3rd gen?