Jussi Ekholm

I think Thomas makes a good point that sometimes prices can fluctuate a lot between different dealers. Of course we do not know stuff going on behind the scenes but sometimes swords do pop up for sale at different dealers with different price tags, there can be increase or decrease on price. Sometimes koshirae is added or removed etc. However most common is just the same sword with same koshirae if it has one. Lots of interesting stuff happening there. Often when a dealer has really good price the item will go very fast. While I think in general Samurai Museum is among more expensive shops I can concur the experience Thomas had, sometimes item they had for a good price ends up listed with higher price at another dealer. Of course that also happens the other way around too. I have not yet met Mike Yamasaki but I believe he has excellent reputation worldwide and I could recommend contacting him if looking for good swords. Another person in the US might be Fred Weissberg: https://nihonto.com/ They are premium dealers so not on the cheap side but you'll get luxury of great knowledge and excellent wares topped with stellar reputation. For such an expensive purchase I think it will be important to find the sword that feels right.

This is just my opinion but 7M yen is greatly overpriced. I believe USD vs. Yen has shifted a lot from spring as this was listed in April for 64k USD. https://web.archive....o-token-certificate/ Here are some comparison items for viewing. Unshō katana (mumei) - c. 2,7M yen Jūyō 55 - https://www.aoijapan...thk-55th-juyo-paper/ Unji tachi signed & dated 1327 - c.7M yen Tokubetsu Hozon (this item is absolutely wonderful historically) it seems to have sold lately, one of the most interesting blades of this school I've seen being sold online - https://eirakudo.sho...katana/detail/768547 Unji tachi (mumei) - c.2M yen Tokubetsu Hozon - https://web.archive....cn11/cn22/pg544.html Unji tachi signed - c.2,5M yen Tokubetsu Hozon - dealer didn't sell this at auction but it was gone from their website fast where it was listed for price mentioned here: https://buyee.jp/ite.../auction/q1098056239 Unji tachi (mumei) - c.2,5M yen Jūyō 49 (koshirae) - https://www.aoijapan...th-nbthk-juyo-paper/ Unji katana (mumei) - c.8-10M yen Tokubetsu Jūyō 6 - Qualitywise probably among the best Unji that have been online sales, this has been through multiple dealers: https://www.samurai-...net/SHOP/V-1800.html Unji katana (mumei) - c.4,5M yen Jūyō 53 (koshirae) - https://www.seiyudo.com/ka-020321.htm Unji katana (mumei) - c.2,8M yen Jūyō 22 - Kirill linked this one earlier https://web.archive....the-22nd-juyo-token/ Unji katana (mumei) - c.2,7M yen Jūyō 21 (koshirae) - https://www.aoijapan...th-nbthk-juyo-paper/ Unji katana (mumei) - c.2,7M yen Jūyō 17 (koshirae) - https://www.aoijapan...th-nbthk-juyo-paper/ Unji katana (mumei) - c.3,5M yen Jūyō 13 - https://eirakudo.sho...katana/detail/224967 Unjū katana (mumei) - c.1,5M yen Tokubetsu Hozon - https://eirakudo.sho...katana/detail/213458 Unjū katana (mumei) - c.4,5M yen Jūyō 65 - https://katananokura.jp/SHOP/2104-K01.html Unjū katana (mumei) - c.2,5M yen Jūyō 62 - https://web.archive.org/web/20220930200639/https://www.touken-sakata.com/刀剣一覧/刀-無銘-雲重-古刀-上作-良業物/ Unjū katana (mumei) - c.2,9M yen Jūyō 48 - https://www.aoijapan...attributed-as-ynjyu/ Unjū katana (mumei) - c.2,5M yen Jūyō 27 - https://www.aoijapan...th-nbthk-juyo-paper/ Unjū naginata-naoshi (mumei) - c.2,5M yen Jūyō 27 - https://web.archive....0/SHOP/1203-K11.html

Awesome trio Jeremiah

I think items like this fall into extremely rare curiosity category. I used my tracking skills and it seems like Samurai Museum had it listed for 9,126$ in december 2022. They are actually often having quite large profit margin added on items that have been at Yahoo JP and then came to their site, so I would assume they have large profit margin on every item. To me it seems their site is geared towards international buyers. Of course it is business and they have to make a profit. However just wanted to mention this if a sword is acquired from dealer who already has large margin in original price and new dealer adds on his/hers margin, then the item can get bit inflated. Yet in the end items are worth what someone is willing to spend for it, and there are different valuations depending on what people focus on.

I think we might have discussed this or similar item in the past on the forum if I remember correctly. You can see the item is currently offered by European seller Kyodai Originals in auction: https://www.catawiki...pan-education-period It is often the case that when dealers acquire swords then the older seller removes the listing. Some swords have switched owners many times and information about shops that owned the item is often lost. There are some geeks like myself who tracks old Kotō swords, sometimes it is interesting that there can be 200% price increase, koshirae appears with the item etc.

Sometimes the problem with English language sources is that they don't have kanji listed. There are multiple different Kunimori smiths that worked in Uda during Muromachi period. Kunimori (国守) mid 1400's and possibly the most famous one featured in Fujishiro Kunimori (国盛) early 1400's and according to some sources might be same smith as the following smith Kunimori (国森) mid 1400's and according to tradition son of 2nd or 3rd Kunimune The third one would be the smith in this case. Unfortunately I cannot provide an oshigata reference of him or any additional info. I haven't yet got a book focused on Uda school. I am not sure if there are difficulties in getting a sword to your country but I would personally avoid auction houses. I have voiced my dislike for auction houses and their business practices several times. I would think you would get much better deal buying from a legitimate seller, for example someone as featured seller at this messageboard. While the item might be initially bit more expensive you will most times get much more value for your money in my opinion.

Perhaps contacting @paul tsubadotinfo regarding sending to shinsa would be good thing. Paul knows these things very well and could give his advice.

For me the financial problem is spending 520,000 yen for restoration. As I'd think "similarish" wakizashi in polish and possibly papered might be in 200,000 - 300,000 yen range. You'll find lots and lots of affordable wakizashi in polish and with papers.

I do think it is very interesting item. However I really dislike auction houses and would not want to personally deal with them. Just saw that in this auction house there will be at least 30% buyers fee on top of what you are bidding on the item.

I think one downside of shinsa is the cost in sending from Europe to Japan & back. Of course it would be nice to have the item & signature verified but I am not sure if it will be financially positive outcome. I haven't sent anything to shinsa so I am not best in giving advice but of course it would be great to have verification for the item.

Yoshii school has fairly common trait of gunome hamon. Here is small tidbit about the school: https://nihonto.com/bizen-yoshii-school/ Unfortunately it is not that highly valued school but the upside of that is that you can sometimes get good quality signed items of the school for "affordable" price.

I tried looking the smith in Bungo book, unfortunately no oshigata for the smith and just 1 very short line of info on him, period etc. same that Markus has on his index. I would think it as genuine as the signature style & nakago to me would seem plausible compared to other Fujiwara Takada smiths around this period. Looking at the pictures it seems like you got a good sword there even though the maker is quite unknown.

Motoshige is the Jūyō Bunkazai in the collection of Tokyo National Museum it was owned by Yūki Hideyasu. Rai Kunimitsu tachi is Jūyō Bijutsuhin in private collection (last ownership I have on record) it was owned by Tokugawa Ieyasu. Both of these items are in Uchigatana koshirae book by Tokyo National Museum.

I am sorry if my message came out bit puzzling, I just didn't want to ruin the fun for others as I looked at the sayagaki and I admit it altered my view. I admit I am having difficulties in judging if the sword is shortened or like Jacques said above in original length. At first I admit I was thinking Muromachi for the sword. I am not very good at judging the sword by just qualities and activities in the blade, however strong masame if often (in the best scenario) pointing to Hoshō attribution if the sword is seen being appropriate age. However as the sword is 68 cm in the current form and there are no holes near bottom of the tang, if it is shortened then it would have been long tachi in original form. It is bit difficult but trying to imagine how the sword would be with extra 15 - 20 cm in length, and it is quite narrow blade in width. Judging from the pictures your sword seems to have good amount of masame. I know there are masame hada fans that know lot about it, unfortunately I am not among them. However as Kirill pointed out there is a huge financial difference depending on what attribution the sword gets as it is mumei. I think Kirill gave good examples, you get Hoshō attribution you would be very happy, you get something like Sendai Kunikane for mumei blade, that is large financial gap even though the sword itself remains the same. It is good thing you have the old "blue" papers as they were at the time marking good quality. Interesting sword and thanks for posting.

There is dedication sword made by Miyairi Norihiro and members of his school to Futarasan-jinja in Nikkō. Also at Yasukuni-jinja there is one made by Nobuhide, and a modern made Shichiseiken too. I think there might have been other shrines/museums that might have had those but I didn't unfortunately wrote down modern made chokutō.

I think it seems to be quite nice piece, in polish, signed & dated with koshirae. One thing would be checking the shipping costs, depending on where the item is vs. you. Sometimes shipping of oversized items can be difficult.

I would think for the latest item it would be Kyodai Originals: https://kyodaioriginals.nl/ who have made the description as they are sellers of the item.

I would feel the same way as Thomas on this

Unfortunately the PP was around 30MB I think, so I just took screenshots and posted them one by one. That is the presentation as it was I didn't have notes (other than in my head) for it. I would like to gather up info for a large free e-book with info on naginata but the major issue in that I feel would be the copyrights for pictures. I do have access on wonderful items in books but I don't think sharing them publically would be allowed. I think the above Powerpoint would still be ok as it was supposed to be educational. Would be super fun project to do though. Here is one picture from the book I mentioned above. Usually you'll see stereotypical timelines like these only for swords, this is first one I have seen for naginata. And here is one modern very large naginata in koshirae: https://www.higotora.com/works/肥後虎本鍛刀・三尺大薙刀・青貝螺鈿・実戦型拵/ I would love to own one of those someday but I see antiques as more viable options for me personally.

It seems to be a nice sword. I took a look on sayagaki and I think with the features seen it might be a good call to make. If you have attribution by modern NBTHK that is a match, then congrats as the school seems to be highly desired by collectors. Unfortunately in the market modern NBTHK papers are mostly setting the pricing standard.

And part 2

Here is the Powerpoint from Utrecht in picture form, slide by slide.

@Moritsuchi That is wonderful to hear Florian. Your Japanese level is far above mine, and I think you can enjoy so many books. Love for naginata is very rare, they are not appreciated a lot which is a shame. Even in Japan they are often seen as lot below Japanese swords in appreciation. I held a presentation of Kamakura & Nanbokuchō period naginata at Japan Art Expo in Utrecht this June. Unfortunately the timeline of my summer didn't match as I headed to Japan after that and learned and saw a lot in there. So it would have been even better to hold a presentation afterwards but I will add few screenshots from that presentation in here as the Powerpoint is too large to upload. Of course as I learned more during the summer some info in presentation might need bit of tweaking. I have added more items to my database during the summer but these will give some info on remaining items from Kamakura - Early Muromachi period. For the koshirae it is extremely rare to find surviving koshirae from Kamakura or Nanbokuchō periods. I have found few in my books but I believe even Muromachi period koshirae for naginata are very rare. So I needed to add some late Muromachi period koshirae to the presentation to get some koshirae info too, and I saw some more now during the summer in Japan. As items are so rare it is difficult to say anything definitive but I think the overall length of the weapon would have often been around 200 cm. There are some as short as 150 cm and some 250+cm but I think around 2 meters would be common size. So fun that we can discuss naginata Here is one "Holy Grail" for collectors, unfortunately it will be most likely forever unachievable for me. https://www.nipponto.../swords/JT988980.htm

I would think Kaga Kagemitsu lineage would be logical to follow as Ray pointed out. I would have gone to that direction as well, as it continues to later Muromachi. However as both expert organizations have disliked the signature I do think it can be false signature.

I cannot say anything for certain but to me your sword could be Muromachi Bizen work by a smith named Sukehide. For the Yoshioka Ichimonji Sukehide I have been able to so far find only a single blade remaining, that has been featured in many references, you can see it linked here: https://web.archive.....nihonto.com/1-2-17/ Then there was also Ko-Bizen Sukehide, you can see reference here: https://iidakoendo.com/4583/ And I have identified 2 tachi by Fukuoka Ichimonji Sukehide in references. I think your sword looks to me to be genuine but I would guess it dating from Muromachi period rather than before that. I cant really say anything for certain by just from 2 pictures.