Bruce Pennington

Hi Jean, Your point about blades getting koshirae changed over the years is a valid point, however it MOSTLY applies to ancestral swords that went through centuries of use. I'll admit that even the modern gunto, once suffering damage, would see replacement fittings as well. But even with the old blades, you could imagine the value of one found in original, 600 year old fittings (in decent shape of course!) compared to one in fittings made yesterday. But even that varies with the taste of the individual collector. Part of the interest, to some of us, is the story. To have a Type 32 saya drag with serial numbers filed off and re-typed gives a tiny view into the life of the blade, and some of us find that fascinating. To know that post-war owners have mixed stuff around spoils the purity of the story. As already stated by many, to some of us who enjoy the discipline/hobby of studying Type 95's, it contaminates the evidence to mess with stuff. Much of what we have to study is simply the gunto themselves, since there is very little documentary information for us to go by. The detective work is fun. Tampering with the evidence interferes with our hobby. As for Luis - he is simply another guy with his own tastes and opinions. Their mercenary view of making money off our hobby is as repusive to many of us as is the practice of cleaning the nakago of a nihonto to nihonto collectors. It wouldn't be quite as bad if Showa22 would document the originals before making changes, and posting the history with the sale. I cleaned my Mantetsu nakago, but I took pictures of the original state (and of course I will never sell it either!). But this is not the only bad practice of the guy. If it were, this conversation probably wouldn't be taking place. He has been damaging blades with bad polishing and faking mei as well. His is not a matter of taste, it involves clear intent to deceive.

Trystan, You're killin' me man!!! 1 - that you have so MANY Mantetsu!, and 2 - that you made me translate all those dates and numbers!!! HA! It was good practice, though. So new developements: We now have TWO consecutive numbers Ku 326 and Ku 327 in 1942 - we would hope to see that; and ALL 6 of our '44 numbers are 4-digit numbers. (thanks to DaveR, who pointed out one of my numbers "243" was really "1143".) (oh, and one of my 4-digits were transposed) I've updated the chart and attached. Mantetsu Serial Numbers.docx

Hamfish nailed it as a "transitional" Type 8 (transitioning to the Type 19). Jim Dawson says the black is custom order, as would be the tempered blade. The nihonto pro's can get more specific on the age, but my inexperienced eye says it's just a period (late 1880's - early 1900's) custom order, tempered blade, not nihonto. These run in the $400 USD range, plus or minus. Terminology is a bit looser with these, as some guys call them "dress" or "parade" swords. Personally, I use those terms for the chromed, non-tempered blades. Tempered ones like this, were often carried in battle, all the way through the war (or "wars" as they lived through Japanese-Sino, Japanese-Russo, and WWII).

Tom, Thanks for the new number! As to the mune surface - it's a new one on me. I just checked my Fall '40 and Spring '41 and they are both rounded. It's something I've not noticed before. I'll start watching for that, now that you've mentioned it. A couple of changes happened those first couple of years, so, it's possible the shape started flat, then becamed round in '40 onward, but we'll start watching for that to see.

Thanks Stephen, oh anywhere from $20 to $60 depending who you get them from.

Got some seppa, mekugi, and chuso from Neil (IJASWORDS) (Thanks Neil!!!!), and they fit nice and tight! Still need a sarute. Anyone have one to sell?

Pics aren’t high def, but looks legit.

Wow Seth! It was the bright gold that threw me off in the first place. Hmmm. Did they say whether they thought the gold plating was done for the palace initial order?

Chuck, read this thread. We broke the code dude! : http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/23543-pet-dragon-solves-faux-roman-numeral-mystery/

I wonder if they were special order.

So, for that purpose, these are a fair representation.

Chris, Nagoya seemed to have less quality control compared to the Tokyo operation. Variations abounded. I'd have to see more of the blade, serial number, and tsuka to make a call. I agree the stamping is thinly cut, and the definition in the ito wrap looks poor, but everything else seems normal, so lacking more of the gunto, even the saya, I'd write those differences off to Nagoya quality control.

Charlie, you just made my day with that single-digit serial number! But this throws an interesting development into the mix. I've seen a "Na 124" and "Na 190" on a 1939 blades. Yours, as a 1941 means that the numbering was either not sequential, or the numbers ran to a certain amount, and then started over.

Wow, Trystan! That is the first Mantetsu I've ever seen with a wavy hamon!

DEH, (Note: please go to you your settings and put in a name we can talk to, thanks!) You've got a nice Type 98 Japanese Army Officer gunto, made in August 1943, for the Nagoya Arsenal (small stamp). Someone better at this may correct me, but I believe the smith's name is 兼定 (Kanesada). Welcome to the club! It's the same way (my father, though) I got hooked on the hobby! Great place to learn some basic about these is the Ohmura site: http://ohmura-study.net/900.html and The Japanese Sword Index: http://japaneseswordindex.com/nihonto.htm

Fabulous, Tom, thanks!

Trystan's two '44 blades - one being a Koa, and the other not- got me to reavaluate something I had been believeing: From Ohmura's site, I had thought that he was saying that the years Mantetsu used the slogan "Koa Isshin" were from Mar 23, '39 to mid '43; and from mid '43 the blades were simply marked as "Mantetsu made this". But Trystan owns a Koa made in '44. After re-reading Ohmura's discussion (here: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/forum/45-military-swords-of-Japan/and here: http://ohmura-study.net/205.html), I think he is simply stating the start dates of both mei, and beginning mid-'43 you'll find both kind. If anyone else reads it another way, please comment.

I see, thank you!

Trystan, I really need the serial number ont the nakago mune (back edge.) Thanks!

Geez, not being a collector of this type, I would have been fooled. I didn't even know they were faking this style! After your comments, though, I can see the differences. Man, never can let your guard down!

With Trystan's numbers, we now have 4 of 5 1944 numbers that are 4-digit; and 1944 being the only year, so far, with 4-digit numbers. Hmmm. If you run some math, with Ohmura's statememt that Mantetsu was cranking out 400 blades per month (assuming that number for all years of production, which is probably not accurate, but for discussion purposes): 400 x 12 = 4,800/yr 4,800 x 8 = 38,000 total for WWII There are roughly 50 katakana kanji - SO if Mantetsu used ALL kanji from the beginning, and used them evenly, the highest the serial numbers would have reached is "768". With numbers into the 2,000s (SE 2344) it's clear they didn't run all the kanji simultaneously and/or evenly distributed. This fits the fact that half the numbers collected are in the "A" row. The search continues ..... (updated chart attached) Mantetsu Serial Numbers.docx

Got it Stephen, thanks!

Thank you Trystan! By any chance were these Mantetsu, without the Koa Isshin?

Thanks Stephen! That’s my first “Tsu” serial number. I’m still amazed at how many “Spring” 1941” show up.

Brady, Most of our blades' lives are a mystery. They come to us after passing through combat, surrender collections, and multiple owners. My dad's Mantetu came to me with seppa, the mekugi peg, and two saya (scabbard) parts missing! Dad claimed someone stole the parts looking for precious gems. But, since it was obvious when looking at the parts that there were no gems, I think it more likely they might have thought there was some real gold in them. But parts may simply get left off after dissassembly and re-assembly from many "Bubbas" over the years. I always take the time to find replacement parts for mine, and try to restore them as much as possible.