Bruce Pennington

Just got a reply back: "Hi Bruce, The photos of the blade I have in the listing shows all, no date, no serial number. I don't think this is a genuine Mantetsu blade. I've never seen a Mantetsu blade with hamon other than suguha, never notare or gunome like this one. Also, the nakago and markings look too "fresh," and the "Nan" stamp looks rather hand-carved than machine stamped. I think someone took a mumei katana, and turned it into a Mantetsu blade. Regards, Mike"

I had a brief conversation with him once, and he says he sells his stuff on commission from suppliers in Japan. So, it's possible there is a mix of stuff they are sending him. These fake Mantetsu likely originate from mumei gendaito (or shingunto) and someone is faking the Mantetsu mei to crank up the price. Some things never change!!! This is the first one with clearly fake fittings, that I've seen.

The chain is from the original sword-belt. It would have had a hook to suspend the sword from the ring on the saya (scabbard). The all-brown tassel is now known to have been used by the Gunzoku, civil branch of the army. They wore uniforms, but had distinctive ranks for the civil side (sort of like our GS & WG workers on bases, but with uniforms). It's a lighter brown than the navy tassel. It would be great to see a focused close-up of the blade tip. Seems the original hamon is more visable there. I've enlarged the one from above: The style is called the Type 98 Japanese officer gunto. You can read about them, with great pictures, on Ohmura's site, here: http://ohmura-study.net/934.html

Yes, $800-1,200, depending upon your buyers budget. It's interesting in the article, they say he was evading "terrorists". Didn't know they were using that term in WWII, and wonder what they meant by it? Locals who were anti-Allies?

"Well isn't THAT special!" Ha! What a unique thing to stamp on a blade. It was on a star-stamped RJT blade, after all, but his is the only one I've seen with this stamp. Thanks again!

Thanks George! Another mystery, because now we wonder "Especially important" order for important person, or especially important work because of the quality of the work? As these are inspector marks, I would guess the latter. You don't happen to recognize that last mark do you?

I agree with Chris. We can only tell you what current market rates are for the average war sword. This one looks like it was made in the late '30s for a civilian purchase, using non-traditional methods. So, on average these run $800-1,000 right now (market has fallen with the COVID plague). That could change if you get it to a professional who can really evaluate this for you, and he says it's something older, but unless it's a famous smith, it won't increase the value much more that $500 or so.

Thanks Bruno! I've messaged Komonjo and asked for pics of the mei, date, and serial number. I have 2 of his previous ones, both with wavy hamon, and both with accuarately marked katakana for the year (Ka). The two serial numbers are 228 and 232. We'll see if the pattern continues. I'm posting the pictures below for the future when the fleabay link goes inactive. the fittings are crude/fake and the ito is new His Mantetsu hamon are always wavy

While it's cetainly possible, my gut feel is that it is the Tokyo 1st Army Arsenal star. The one to the right is still "unknown" but strikes me as quite similar to the Mizuno emblem found on some Type 95s. We know Mizuno only made 95s for a short time, and lost the contract, but could have been making koshirae.

Neil (IJASWORDS) owns an RJT gendaito with "特" TOKU stamped on the mune. Does anyone know the signifigance of the term? Why would an inspector have a stamp that says "Toku"?

Neil, From the top - Seki, 特 = TOKU, and Unknown. I haven't found anyone who recognized that bottom one, probably because there isn't enough detail to make out the strokes. Also, I don't know the meaning of the Toku, so if someone does, please let us know! If yours is a June 1944, I have it in my data already. If another month, please let me know!

Jeff, That's a personal decision only you can make, as to polishing, and will depend upon your budget ($100 per inch) and plans for the blade. The guys think this was a mass-produces blade, so the value added by a polish will have to be simply your own appreciation, as the polishing cost will exceed the market value of the whole sword. I don't know enough about that world to know if a polisher can simply de-rust the blade at a cheaper price and not do a full polish. You might write to a polisher and ask. There are several in the "Links" tab at the forum top bar, then far right "restoration." I used David Hofhine (davidhofhine@gmail.com) for my Mantetsu. I'd ask him.

Showa Stamp Of the vast number of blades we've seen with the Showa stamp, I only have 3 - THREE - with confirmed dates: 1940-Kaneuji, Feb 1940 Kanetako, and 1941-Kanemichi. The rest (16 of them) I could not find dates on the posts where they were discussed. If you have blades, or know of links to them, with Showa stamped blades that are dated, please add them to this thread for my records. I would like the smith name too, if known. Seki I have dated blades in every year from 1941 to 1945. Ohmura has 1 or 2 dated 1938, but I don't have anything prior to 1941, so if you know of examples of dated blades with the Seki stamp prior to 1941, please post. Both Seki & Gifu I only have 2 examples: 1944-Kanehide and 1945-Hiromitsu. If you have examples of blades with both stamps, please post. Gifu I have 4: Nov 1943-Hiromitsu, Dec 1943-Unknown, Oct 1944-Uknown, and Feb 1945-Ichishige. I could use more data on Gifu stamped blades, with smith and date. Thanks in advance!

Dave, I'll have to say that, knowing the multitude of variations in WWII gunto, there very well may be some Rinji that were built from the beginning with two mekugi. Even with one in hand, there would be no way to know without removing the ito and same' to see if the wood was notched for a metal plate.

Dave,Actually, the "type 3" or Contingency model (Rinji-seishiki), was designed with the lower ana being filled with a screw. They have a thin metal plate on the other side for the screw to attach to. The upper ana takes a mekugi. I'd say 80% of these are lost through time, so people replace them with mekugi. I usually see them for sale with a mekugi in the lower ana and the upper ana empty (likely because someone has removed the upper one to replace the missing screw. Here is one with the ito and same' gone, showing the square where the metal plate fits (missing on this one. A Bubba had put a bolt and nut in it, along with naugahayde for handle wrap!)

Here's the direct link to the seller's thread: https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?1160271-WTS-Reference-book-collection

Laura, The other guys will have to help you with the age, but it looks pretty old to me. You can get a great understanding of the parts at Ohmura's website: http://ohmura-study.net/905.html That page breaks down the parts and gives exquisite pictures of them all. At the index page, you can see all the areas his covers, each with fabulous pictures: http://ohmura-study.net/900.html Frankensword - ha! yes, but quite unique, as your story means it was put together at the end of the war, in Japan. The occupation time at the end of the war is a very important time in history. I consider even the souvenir swords of that phase, important pieces that help record the story of Japan.

Ok, this is getting interestinger and interestinger! Navy fittings (missing 1 belt hanger 'ashi') on an army metal saya (scabbard), with civil tsuba (handguard), non-navy colored ito (handle wrap), and army menugi (3 blossom device on either side of the handle under the wrap). I can't recite the timeline on sword confiscation at war's end, and then when they allowed people to keep them again, but this has that "demiliterized" look that the Army PX souvenir sword had (not the same rig at all, just similar mix of army/navy parts). All the parts on yours look like legitimate war sword parts, but they have been mixed - army/navy/civil - most likely to get around the prohibition of selling war weapons. I like the blade!

Ok, could be! I have an example on the outside of the liner ends where rust from the inside of the steel saya was "growing" into the wooden tips. So, your idea may explain it. But now, I'm still at a loss in understanding the permanent black stains I find on blades. One of our guys had proposed the tannin idea, that it was leaching out of the wood and into the steel. If that's not the case, then what would be causing those spots? It's not rust.

Found that even though a liner may have tannin stains, they don't always stain the blade. In fact, most of these stains are not found on the blades. this one has extensive stains, while the blade is unmarked Most if not all, had wet stains at the opening of the saya throat, which makes sense, as the first part of the liner absorbs the majority of the oils as the blades slides in. Goes as a reminder to not leave standing oil on the blade! My late-war liner was actively wet! The outside even had greenish moldy looking spots! I had already sanded this before the picture was taken.

Got to check a few more today. One was dry and clean. Second one was still tightly glued together along the mune side! I could open it just enough to clean a spot or two, but mostly in good shape. Third had only 1 half of the liner!!! And it was on one of my near-mint 95s! You can see where the tannin put a permanent stain on the blade Checking my copper liner was a surprise! The halves were sealed tightly with glued strips of paper! The end was made differently than the liners of the aluminum models.

Not an identical mei, but similar: http://japaneseswordindex.com/oshigata/ujifusa2.jpg

Wow, there's a whole web-page on this smith's mei: http://www.nihontocraft.com/Izumi_no_Kami_Kunisada_mei.html You could go there and compare the various examples with yours to see what you think. Like the other guys pointed out, even if it is gimei, it is still a very old Japanese sword. There is a story of a Shogun who was given a sword as a gift, and it had a gimei signature, but everyone knew it, and he accepted the gift for the value of the sword. Here is a couple of mei from that site, with yours to compare: To my VERY untrained eye, I see some strokes missing on at least 3 of the kanji on your blade. We would still very much like to see pictures of the whole blade with close-ups of the blade tip and a selection of mid-blade (for details in the metal).

Thanks for the pics Robinson. The hamon is quite faint and hard to see. The Nihonto guys can correct me if wrong, but I believe this to be an oil-quenched, non-traditionally made blade (like the vast majority of WWII blades). The two holes in the nakago indicate this was made for the Rinji-seishiki (Type 3) fittings. The multiple stamps are not unheard of on showato, though not the norm, but I agree yours having both the Seki and Gifu stamps put it in the "scarce" or "rare" category.

Manuel, For my own education, what is meant by "practice sword?" Do you think it was made in Japan as a practice sword? The blade shape looks authentic as does the nakago jiri. The etched name "Randal" and possibly a unit "IIXII" could be the guy that brought it back, if made during the war (for practice).