Bruce Pennington

An interesting tangent to the SMR discussion, coming from Gunboards forum. A German Mauser with what appears to be a railway stamp on it. Posted here: https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?1160751-South-Manchuria-Railway-pistols&p=10381215#post10381215 NMB thread here: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/32656-mauser-c96-with-smr-railway-stamp/ It is similar enough to maybe be SMR railway police, but different enough it could be railway of any country's rail system.

Some pics with sources shown. Multiple images of Chinese soldiers using Mausers. SMR was in China, and the various railways had their own police/soldier guard units. So it's definitely within the realm of possiblities that one of the raiways (there were more than just SMR) stamped this weapon.

From a post on the Gunboards forum: https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?1160751-South-Manchuria-Railway-pistols Wondering if anyone knows of the Japanese using German Mausers during the war? The railway stamp COULD be South Manchurian Railway.

That's quite interesting Peter! After seeing the other example you found, it appears to be a private/civilian version with hints of IJA qualities, so made for a civilian blade that is being converted to WWII use. I've seen island swords with really poor attemts to replicate the IJA tsuba, but this is not what we're seeing here. They are not trying to "copy" the IJA tsuba, but simply add hints/flavors of it into the private tsuba. The fact that you show 2 examples could mean they both came from the same shop, but they arent' identical so it opens the idea up that more than 1 shop was making these. I'd like to see more examples if they can be found. (I'm adding the other one just in case the website page ever goes inactive)

"Apple" is a good example! https://secureyourtrademark.com/can-you-trademark/common-words-phrases/

Ah. That settles it for me then.

Bruno, I want to say it was single-button, but I can’t swear to it, and I don’t recall where I saw it or I’d look it up to check.

I'm adding the pictures for history-sake, of the original post. In time, these often dissapear and I'd like to make them permanent. I'm also adding a link to the Warrelics thread where Nick Komiya uncovered original documents on the 1938 design, and purpose of the Rinji-seishiki: http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/deflating-another-myth-type-3-army-officera-s-sword-expanded-version-584796/

Ahhhhh! Brian used the "all"-word!!! Ok, you qualified that with the "exceptions clause", whew! Ha! If you want to go with the "norm" the gendaito in Contingency fittings (Type 3, 0, Rinji-seishiki), will have the double release buttons and dust-cover seppa. Many have the laquered wooden saya, but I personally have an RJT stamped 1945 Kunitoshi in a metal saya (double buttons & dust cover). I have recently seen 1 in the light tan, single button saya, as well. So, there are exceptions to every rule in shingunto. You might have a hard time finding the laquered wooden saya, though, on the market. You might have some luck finding the dust-cover seppa, or having one made.

Here are 2 more pics of Leen's tassel (from our Warrelics conversation), and it looks more brownish than purple with better lighting. Like Matt's recommendation, the answer may only come when Leen has another one to compare it to. Though, I wonder, like all other gunto fittings that vary a bit with multiple contractors, whether this could simply be understood with that in mind.

This is a doozie from Robert's (Surfson) post http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/32640-new-acquisition-that-needs-some-tlc/ I imagine it would eat the wood liner to shreds with only a few cycles of the blade!

I’m sorry, I’m just fascinated by the fact that he made a book! Did he mention the circumstances of how we came to own the sword?

Hi Dean! What is the book you've pictured? Seems the sword and flag are the ones pictured in the book.

Ray, if you don't mind, I'm going to post your identical tassel on the warrelics thread. Nick wasn't bothered by the color, and I'd like to find out why.

That's cool, Leen! Have you had it translated yet? Just curious about that tassel. Is it the lighting? The colors look peculiar.

An interesting one found by Derek with both rain and cross-hatching:

All, There are some folks, like I used to be for years, that ONLY read the Military Swords forum. Brian is asking for our input on the coming upgrade to the NMB site, on payment options. Please visit his page and take the short survey (1 click!) here: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/32615-upgrading-the-hosting-and-software/

There is a fantastic collection of WWII documents concerning sword confiscation and classification of National Treasure swords in the NMB Articles section. Around pages 22,23, there is a letter detailing the sequence of events starting with the Japanese govt order allowing the National Treasure swords to be kept and not surrendered. I've attached it. It shows that this happened within 5 weeks of the surrender (3 weeks from the official signing). I couldn't find one that addressed the topic here, but it is a fascinating read, with letters of complaints and several examples of police stations mishandling swords, failing to document them, etc. Page 2 of the records shows a puzzling order issued by the 25th Infantry HQ, Dec '45, claiming the Supreme Commander had rescinded the authorization for Japanese retention, and possession of even National Treasure swords and they were to be turned in! This caused quite a stir (an unfortunately some lost swords) until it was cleared up by the attached letter. Fascinating look into the messiness of the day-to-day events. The entire compliation is found here: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/forum/57-nt-and-iao-list-and-sword-documents-by-us-gov-1945-1950/

Wanting to hear a translation of the seppa stamped mei. First stamped seppa mei I've ever seen! and like Chris said:

Ok, the latest from our conversation with Nick Komiya at Warrelics: Both dirks in my post #6 above are FORRESTRY dirks! Nick is convinced that both Ohmura and Fuller are incorrect on the dirks with backstraps and floral patterns. He says those are cadet dirks. The only forrestry dirks are the ones without floral patterns and are silver in color (Fuller's pattern 1) An interesting discovery is that these dirks came originally without sakura on the menuki, but were added in a 1914 mod. Link to conversation: http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/navy-cadet-dirk-anyone-actually-seen-one-769657/

Alex, Do you know the source of the information? Is your friend over there? Are these pics from there? I'm just hoping someone is messing with us. Having said that, if you had brought this to us without the cover story, I'd have to agree with you that certain things bother me about it. - The sakura on the fuchi is wrong. - The tsuba has that new, brass look - The nakago seems bent rather than a natural curve - The nakago is obviously falsely aged. - I'm no nihonto buy, but that hamon looks wrong Much of the rest is very convincing though, enough so, that it would be one of those where guys say "Nothing I can prove, but enough flags that I'd walk away from this one!". PS, please tell me someone is just messing with us!

Brian -- Thank you!

I appreciate your sentiment Paul. Most, if not all, my swords are in my collection because they are special to me, or affect me, in one way or another. I know we're all different in our collecting principles, but for me, the future value of my swords were never a consideration in my purchases. They are valuable to me. Great topic!

One from Michael's post on the translation forum:

Thanks Marc. Yoshiharu is one of the known smiths that had the stamp, though we don't know why there is a small group of names - Kaneoto (with Seki stamp); Haruhisa; Kokima Kanenori; Tenshin; Takehisa; Yoshiharu; and Yoshitani. Your blades doesn't have a serial number on the nakago mune, does it?