Shamsy

I'm afraid there does come a point where rarety of something does not justify price. You would have to be absolutely determined or have deep pockets at this stage of bidding.

Yes, an interesting site that one. Not one I'd recommend for Japanese swords or ethics.

I can think of nothing I'd be prouder to do than return one of Japan's missing national treasures without consideration of a reward.

Wow! It's not even a rarer model. It's a common Suya stamp, not early, not late... It is in nice condition but that's already more than twice what I think it should fetch. Another slipped through the tough ‘weaponry’ laws... I wonder if Japan will change it's stance in the future as the war becomes older history and people's interest increases. Probably not I'm my lifetime.

Hi Bill, good to see you around. Since this thread started I have done some further research and reading and thanks to the tireless efforts of Nick learned that in 1937 officers were actually allowed to purchase an NCO sword as a fairly desperate measure to meet demand. Therefore, considering this was a private purchase, it is conceivable that an officer may have switched the machine made blade with one more traditionally made. I think though that even as a bit of a risk-taker, I will be steering well clear of these swords, as a lack of habaki and generally awkward looking construction definitely leaves me with the original opinion I formulated.

Yes, one post and offers to source whatever I needed. Too good to be true! A good little trick is to ask for a picture of the sword with a handwritten username in the frame. Then you can be reasonably sure they at least have the item... Thanks Brian for keeping an eye out. As they're banned already I'll not spam you with PM.

I've spoken to Stegel and can correct 1943 to September 1942. So the transition took place a few months earlier than I previously stated.

Morning Bruce, Stegel can correct me if I'm wrong with any of this; Yes I believe number were assigned in blocks to the supervising arsenal as you stated. These then seem to have been divided into smaller runs among the various manufacturers, some manufacturer are more prevalent than others and thus encompass larger ranges. Suya for example are the most commonly encountered stamp and prevalent maker, spanning the largest number range. In the case of the cross over point between the side latch pattern 4 and wooden handle pattern 5, this occurred within 1943, with both patterns produced that year. The production volumes and specifics are not exactly homogeneous either, so estimating date ranges based on them is not ideal. Oh, I'd just been chatting recently that I haven't seen a 95 post for a while and look what appeared! Cheers, Steve

Morning, Of course the best advice I can give us to read Ohmura: http://ohmura-study.net/998.html That seems to be the latest and generally considered the most factual information on these swords. There must be a few threads already on this subject, but I can't remember Tokyo being mentioned. I tend to lack retention though, so I may have just forgotten. Cheers

That really is a lovely sword Ed. Fabulous fitting and that same and ito... Beautiful work! Must have been a wealthy individual!

I'd not be making any alterations myself. To avoid the loose tsuka which may eventually cause damage if constantly rattling, I'd add the leather seppa. Unless this is already a parts sword, I'd not consider altering it irrevocably for any reason. The saya latch is a small concern, unless you plan on throwing it around anyway.

I've got swords that I strongly suspect saw use... But absolutely no concrete evidence to back that up. Chips in the cutting edge, sharpening, wear and stains consistent with use... I used to have a gendaito with a .45ACP impact in the tsuba. It was a good sword, but I moved it on a while back. It's likely we all have swords that saw use, but difficult to verify unless you buy it off a veteran. Waiting for Stegel to share his sword.

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Current as of 23/08/2017 I could not find the original post to update, but thought that I would share this with my fellow Aussies. Sadly free ownership of almost any kind of 'weapon' is non-existent here, so it is important to know the laws. This information is obtained from the police of each state, or legal databases, not Whirlpool forums or someones 'but I heard' hearsay. I am in no way presenting legal advice or qualified to be interpreting the law, so please read yourselves: NSW Do I need a licence or permit for a Sword? "In general, swords such as a sabre, cutlass, samurai sword, katana, etc fall outside the scope of the Weapons Prohibition Act 1998 and you do not need a licence or permit to own one and there are no specific safe storage requirements." "However, if a sword is concealed or appears to be something other than a sword, for example if it's concealed in a walking stick, it is classified as a prohibited weapon and you will require a special permit to possess it." http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/online_services/firearms/permits/firearms_permits/frequently_asked_questions_-_firearm_permits#wp2 VIC Prohibited weapons "Prohibited weapons are items considered inappropriate for general possession and use without a Chief Commissioner's Approval or a Governor in Council Exemption Order (GIC Exemption)." "Prohibited weapons are specifically listed in the Control of Weapons Act 1990 and Control of Weapons Regulations 2011." Prohibited weapons include swords as per the link to a full list of prohibited weapons found here: http://www.police.vic.gov.au/content.asp?Document_ID=25574 WA In a media release “Mr Prince said controlled weapons were mainly those articles which were designed as weapons but used in lawful sports and activities such as martial arts. “It will also be illegal to carry or possess without a lawful excuse a controlled weapon, which includes a baton flail (nunchaku), crossbow, spear gun or sword,” he said. Swords are a controlled weapon, not a prohibited one. http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/wa/consol_act/wa1999107/s7.html SA Prohibited weapons "Prohibited weapons are a risk to public safety. You cannot possess a prohibited weapon without an exemption. Exemptions are issued for specific purposes only and conditions apply for each weapon." Swords are NOT listed as a prohibited weapon. https://www.police.sa.gov.au/services-and-events/firearms-and-weapons/weapons NT Firearms licences, permits and forms – Weapons forms refer only to the purchase of Prohibited weapons http://www.pfes.nt.gov.au/Police/Firearms-Weapons/Firearms-licences-permits-forms.aspx Lists of prohibited and controlled weapons. Note that swords are a controlled weapon. https://legislation.nt.gov.au/Legislation/WEAPONS-CONTROL-REGULATIONS QLD ​​​​The Weapons Licensing section of the QPS website. https://www.police.qld.gov.au/programs/weaponsLicensing/ Sword is not listed under any of the weapons classifications https://www.police.qld.gov.au/programs/weaponsLicensing/licenceApplication/weapons/categories/categories.htm Under FAQ "Can I buy a sword from overseas and import it into Queensland? What do I need to do? Do I need a licence to keep the sword in Queensland? "Swords (katanas etc) are not classified as weapons in the Weapons Categories Regulation 1997. Therefore, there is no requirement to have swords registered to licence issued under the provisions of the Weapons Act 1990 (the Act). "However, persons who possess swords must be mindful of the misuse provisions (sections 57 through 59) of the Act as these provisions will apply to persons who possess swords in Queensland. "To lawfully import swords into Australia (Queensland) a Form B709B (Importation of Weapons – Police Certification) is not required, as swords are not classified as prohibited imports under the Customs (Prohibited Imports) Regulations 1956. Swords may be imported without the approval of the Queensland Police Service." https://www.police.qld.gov.au/programs/weaponsLicensing/fees/faqs/acquiringFaqs.htm ACT Pretty scant information here… list of prohibited weapons which doesn’t include a sword http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/sl/1997-12/default.asp Online forms to possess a prohibited weapon https://www.police.act.gov.au/report-and-register/online-forms NOTE: I cannot stress enough that there are often additional storage requirements, record keeping and the like that accompanies ownership!! The best advice is to call the police and discuss with them the full requirements, or contact a reputable club/society. The police are typically a pretty good mob doing a bloody tough job. They recognise the difference between a clown with a Chinese 'samurai sword' and a collector wanting to do the right thing. Societies and clubs care about members and maintaining the good reputation of the fraternity, so want to see the right thing done.

Hi Bruce, I think the restoration turned out to be well worth it. It's not always about the money; some things are worth doing because of what it represents to you. Cheers, Steve

Plenty of examples of black saya. Most had combat covers though. That's not a worry. Looks fine otherwise. Chippy mei and what looks like a stamp so likely Seki showato. Painted kanji intact which is nice. They did paint gendi blades too, but the stamp and mei almost certainly indicate non-traditional. Were I a collector of 98s I'd think 1k fair.

A nice sword, exhibiting age and use, my two favorite qualities in the sea of 98s. Unsigned blades are not uncommon at all. Any traces of painted kanji on nakago? There are plenty of genuine seppa around too if you would prefer the real deal.

It's come up very nicely Dave. The choice to swap out the kabutogane was a good one. I thought the first was a little under proportioned, but the second sits nicely and complements the koshirae.

If I offend - tough! It's still a free world right? Right?! Shill bidding is dishonest theft as far as I'm concerned. If you're not prepared to receive less than a certain amount for your item set that as starting or minimum bid. Don't cheat people. I hope karma bites those crooks. I believe shill bidding actually saved me recently. I made a bid but was second highest and didn't win. Then I get a message that the highest bidder was from China, so the sword couldn't be sent and I had a marvelous opportunity to buy at my maximum bid. Luckily at that point I'd sobered up and realised the sword wasn't close to worth that.

Why does the Gifu stamp show as unknown but not the Kobe? Old pic on ohmura. Anyway, good illustration for the Seki sword.

Dawson doesn't identify the left sword (the one matching Bruce's) as chrome plated, only the right side one, which is the dress sword. The left hand sword matching Bruce's certainly looks chrome plated in the photo, but I wonder if that's just the picture. Dawson states "A Type 98 shin-gunto (left) and a rarely encountered shin-gunto dress sword (right)... The dress sword has a copper handle, a chrome plated blade, and a chrome plated scabbard." Recent research has suggested that at one time all NCO swords were considered for chrome as a means to preserve the blade and prevent the process of sharpening and blunting of the blade during wartime: "And the reverse outcome of dulling the blade as well as rust-proofing was hoped to be achieved by chrome-plating the sharpened blade and thus sheathing the edge in a layer of chrome, which they had been trying since 1932. This dulling by chrome-plating was meant to be a reversible process, in which the blade was supposed to be returned to a sharp state by removing the plating at the edge at times of war. However, this plan of killing two birds with one stone (rust-proofing and dulling/sharpening) was not successful in the end." Full credit to Nick Komiya. Something similar?

Depends on you own consumer laws too.

関 That's the stamp I see? It is only the right hand half though. Like I said, poorly (and commonly so) struck.

It really does look that way, doesn't it? Cheers Chris, whether or not, appreciate you passing on the offer.

That's why I love them. Always a surprise!