Cello Posted August 24, 2011 Report Posted August 24, 2011 HI all, Is this translation I was given correct.... satsuma kuni masafusa??I havent found much under that exact name? Does this wakizashi look to be salvageable with the chip so far down the blade? It's being offered to me at a reasonable price but would it be worth anything with the damge,I dont know enough to make a call on this one any advice? Quote
Mark Posted August 24, 2011 Report Posted August 24, 2011 BiShu Osafune Norimitsu (upside down - i had to twist my neck) Quote
Cello Posted August 24, 2011 Author Report Posted August 24, 2011 lol I didn't even think to flip the fliped Mei My bad sorry guys.... Quote
Cello Posted August 24, 2011 Author Report Posted August 24, 2011 So Mark do you think it can be saved? Quote
Henry Wilson Posted August 24, 2011 Report Posted August 24, 2011 If the chip is not cutting through the hamon I am sure it could be saved. The question is, is it worth it? Quote
Cello Posted August 24, 2011 Author Report Posted August 24, 2011 that is what I thought but being so close to the machI..( correct me if I'm using the wrong term) how would you remove it with out taking the edge way down leaving next to nothing at the ha machi?? Quote
cabowen Posted August 24, 2011 Report Posted August 24, 2011 that is what I thought but being so close to the machI..( correct me if I'm using the wrong term) how would you remove it with out taking the edge way down leaving next to nothing at the ha machi?? You can't. To remove this chip you would have to move the edge in which would then require cutting a new ha machi, which would then require filling back the edge of the nakago. Then the nakago would need repatination. A lot of work that would need to be done by a very competent craftsman. Quote
george trotter Posted August 24, 2011 Report Posted August 24, 2011 Hi Mr Cello, it looks like the sword was much longer, and was shortened with the mei bent around to the other side to become what is termed orikaeshi mei. It was originally signed tachimei and is now a katana. The bo-hi terminates at the mei so it was either covered up by the orikaeshi mei or bo-hi was added later. You do not show the other side, but if the bo-hi goes on through the nakago it was probably original to the making date. There are a number of Bishu Osafune Norimitsu smiths listed between 1380-1550 who signed your way...all good. You don't show the whole blade so we can't really tell anything, but the machi notches seem healthy and the chip is not too bad IMHO (possibly leave it?), so...I think you need to do a bit more research before you decide what to do. Regards. Edit to add: I see Chris has mentioned the need for re-cutting the machi if the chip is polished out...I suppose it is possible to just re-polish and leave some of the chip visible and thus preserve the nakago "as is". Just a thought...I have no experience with what is done in these situations. Quote
Cello Posted August 24, 2011 Author Report Posted August 24, 2011 So I guess the question would be what this sword could be worth in terms of resale after bening polished?Not to make money but to recoupe the money put into it if the need arises, as often times money can suddenly become in short suppuly these days! Quote
cabowen Posted August 24, 2011 Report Posted August 24, 2011 Before you can determine value you need to determine the validity of the mei. If it is genuine and an early generation it may well be worth the restoration costs, which, if done by the proper professional, will not be cheap. Another candidate for shinsa...... Quote
Cello Posted August 24, 2011 Author Report Posted August 24, 2011 Yup I agree...... boy this collecting sure does get costly!lol Given the condition assuming the Mei is good what do you think a fair price would be??1000-1400?? less more I'm not sure.. I basically know the some of the cost involved it repair but not sure what the end product could be worth... Quote
Jacques Posted August 24, 2011 Report Posted August 24, 2011 Hi, It was originally signed tachimei and is now a katana. It is the contrary it was originally katana mei. Quote
sanjuro Posted August 24, 2011 Report Posted August 24, 2011 the question would be what this sword could be worth in terms of resale after bening polished?Not to make money but to recoupe the money put into it if the need arises, Chances are that you wont. The cost of the polish and repair added to the cost of the original sword, even given that it is a genuine mei, would still likely not be recoverable. If this is a consideration in the purchase then research the market price of blades by this tosho or similar, prior to spending the money on it or on any restoration of it. Quote
Jacques Posted August 24, 2011 Report Posted August 24, 2011 Hi, This orikaeshi mei seems to be well done, a high resolution picture of the whole nakago would be instructive. Quote
george trotter Posted August 24, 2011 Report Posted August 24, 2011 Hi, It is the contrary it was originally katana mei. You are right Jacques...I think...also wrong...I think! Is there something wrong with my eyes, or the pics? I originally looked at the top picture and "unfolded" the mei, which becomes tachimei...but now, looking at the bottom pic, the mei would become katanamei...am I dreaming? If you look carefully at the pics, one is reversed so the mei appears on both sides of the nakago...which pic is the original? Quote
Jacques Posted August 24, 2011 Report Posted August 24, 2011 Hi, George You need glasses, on one picture you can read the mei and not on the other. the correctly oriented one is the one you can't read the mei. Quote
sanjuro Posted August 24, 2011 Report Posted August 24, 2011 George. The original of the pic (whichever one it is) has been flipped thus reversing it, rather than revolved which would not have reversed it. At least it appears that way to me. Quote
george trotter Posted August 24, 2011 Report Posted August 24, 2011 Ggggarghhh! I had another look...I must be crazy, but when I revolved either pic to make the " mitsu" stand upright and readable, the bo-hi is on opposite sides...am I having a brain-freeze? Maybe Cello can explain it to me so even I can understand it. Quote
sanjuro Posted August 24, 2011 Report Posted August 24, 2011 Look again George..... Look at all the characters not just the mitsu character. You are the victim of a messy mitsu. Hmmmm... Good name for an incompetent Tosho ....Messimitsu. :D Quote
cabowen Posted August 24, 2011 Report Posted August 24, 2011 Being able to place an accurate financial value on a blade, like kantei, is not a skill learned from books or over night. There are too many factors at play to even begin a discussion in this venue. The best advise I can give is to search the net for comparable blades for sale and get as large a sample as you can. With the strong yen, it would probably cost you at least $5000 to get the blade properly restored and through shinsa. It could be worth twice that or more. Or much less....Polishing is always a bit of a crap shoot, but with blades in poor condition it is even more so... I should add that reticence in giving you values can have many causes but in all honesty it is impossible to give you any accurate valuation from pictures. Again, shinsa is the first step....you need to know what you have to make any further decisions. Quote
Stephen Posted August 24, 2011 Report Posted August 24, 2011 .jpg] is it worth it? That's subjective isn't it? If the mei is good and you have the money you have saved the sword for the future...other wise it will go to ruin like most antiquity....yes? pix rotated and flipped for you Geo Quote
george trotter Posted August 24, 2011 Report Posted August 24, 2011 AAAAHHH!!! Now I see it. Duh! ...I'm going to bed....my head hurts. Quote
Cello Posted August 24, 2011 Author Report Posted August 24, 2011 Sorry about all the flipping These were the pic I was able to get from the seller so I'm not sure if they were mirriored to begin with,I will be getting some more soon.Stephen I feel like it's almost an obligation to take on the resoration of these swords.Maybe I'm a little crazy but it feels like a crime to leave them to rot into obscurity.....I guess I'll pick this one up and hold on to it,send it to shinsa and get the funds to properly restore it if it comes back good from shinsa. p.s So I is signed tachi mei or no?? Now I'm confused I thought It was katana mei if you unfold it Quote
Grey Doffin Posted August 24, 2011 Report Posted August 24, 2011 If the picture above from Stephen's post is correct, this is a katana mei. Grey Quote
Cello Posted August 25, 2011 Author Report Posted August 25, 2011 So is it would it be proper if in order to remove the chip to loose the entire hamachi?? I did some digital manipulation of the image and if you move the exact same blade line up it will take out the chips but leave only the slights bit at the hamachi.. Quote
cabowen Posted August 25, 2011 Report Posted August 25, 2011 So is it would it be proper if in order to remove the chip to loose the entire hamachi?? I did some digital manipulation of the image and if you move the exact same blade line up it will take out the chips but leave only the slights bit at the hamachi.. It isn't ideal but it is the only way to repair the damage. Just make darn sure it is done correctly by something that knows what they are doing (read: professional) and it will be hardly noticeable, if at all.....otherwise you will end up with more damage than you repair. Quote
runagmc Posted September 11, 2011 Report Posted September 11, 2011 Sometimes it's better to leave some of the chip in order to keep the proper shape and to lengthen the life of the blade. Small chip is not as bad as poor shape IMHO. If you use a good polisher he will probably tell you what is best... hopefully. good luck if you decide to restore Quote
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