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daishobohi

By daishobohi
in Translation Assistance

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Brian

Brian

Posted
Posted

Yep..that's Yitzy's auction.

Y'know..we can never stop people from asking questions that they are going to use for commercial means..all we can do is ask nicely that they ask permision or at least mention it first. But be aware that these kind of actions really do influence people's decisions whether to supply info or not in the future. Don't be surprised at a lack of answers next time :roll:

 

Brian

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cabowen Grand Master

cabowen

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I get this all the time...People ask me to translate something that is either currently for sale or that they are listing, without making it clear.... When something is for sale, sometimes I will get two, three or more people emailing me asking for the same translation. Sometimes people will use my info in their auction description verbatim without asking me....Often, the seller will ask me to translate, then the new owner will send me the same oshigata, in an effort to confirm (?) the translation that I did originally. I have been sent the same oshigata by seller, interested buyers, then the new owner....A few times I have been through this cycle two or three (!!!) times with the same sword!

 

It should almost be required, like a signature, for those asking for translation help to specify if the sword is theirs and for sale, someone else's and for sale, or not for sale....

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Clive Sinclaire Rising Star

Clive Sinclaire

Posted
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Chris et all

I have had exactly the same experience and think it may be tacitly encouraged by the NMB having a dedicated on-line sales section, which I now never bother looking at and I think does not contribute very much to the stated obejectives of the study and preservation of Japanese swords. The great commercialism surrounding Japanese swords is to be regretted.

Now, back into my "holier than thou" :beer: seclusion.

Season's greetings

Clive Sinclaire

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sanjuro Veteran

sanjuro

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Posted

Whilst we are on the topic, my two cents worth..........

 

The NMB for sale section does or rather has in the past, provided a place where newbies and not-so-newbies can buy, sell or trade swords that are at least the genuine article, within the comparative safety of the NMB community. Of late it has and sadly will continue to be, the haunt of ebay sellers wishing to add a second and simultaneous string to their bow in order to sell their wares. It is a regrettable but inevitable development. As Reinhard says; 'The XXXX is hitting the fan of the NMB'. Like all free services, the commercial abuse is bound to creep in.

The transalation service provided by our tireless experts is also somewhat abused by people who have made no effort to translate their own inscriptions but prefer to take the fast and free way to get translation gratification. We did for a while encourage people to attempt the translation themselves and then perhaps correct the parts that they were stumbling over. Now it seems the requests for translations are more numerous and the NMB is the first stop for someone wishing to get a free ride. It seems to be a burgeoning fashion for someone wishing a translation to join merely for that purpose, and then we never hear from them again, or they make numerous requests for various translations as they buy and sell swords without making the effort to attempt their own.

Drawing the line between who to assist and who to ignore is impossible I guess, and there will always be a contingent of members who seek solely to profit from or use the Board only to their own commercial or selfish advantage.

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Brian

Brian

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Clive,

May I respectfully disagree, for many more reasons that I won't even go into here :)

In fact, I see this as a safe® haven for sales than eBay, which only benefits the community, and collectors who have bought some high end fittings lately might agree with me. There is also the fact that more Nihonto books are sold here than almost anywhere else. Although you get the usual low quality stuff, we are aslo seeing a lot of decent stuff, and any items are vetted by the community at the same time, and we have yet to see a fake sword slip past. I think this is an asset for the community, not a hindrance, and the number of serious collectors who buy and sell tsuba etc here speaks volumes.

Of course, the nice thing, is that in this format, people who would rather see their commercial sales advertised via Nihonto newsletters or who knows where else...can just ignore that section here ;)

This is a commercial hobby. Swords have always been graded by quality and hence value. Swords have been ranked via points and quantities of rice (value) and whether we like it or not, value is a major part of being a collector. Anyways, I think few would campaign for less-safe places to sell Nihoto items.

 

As for the topic above, have we nothing better to make a big deal about, or are we waiting for the new year?

Is it scandalous and shocking that someone posted a genuine military sword here and then posted it on eBay? Sheesh. We have covered this before. It is requested that people post if they are using the info for commercial means. If that needs to become a rule..we can look at that. Either way, there are worse things in life, and I think we should be proud of the fact that most places on the internet and elsewhere charge for info like this. We are one of the few places that hasn't gone private, and still helps freely. I prefer that to the opposite.

I request that people do not harass our members in private for info, and if it becomes a problem, we will have to deal with that. Hopefully that is our worst problem we face in the new year, as things can get a whole lot worse.

 

As for Reinhard...I know the thought that a military sword is mentioned and sold here is abhorrent to the advanced collectors, but there are still some who study these and collect them, and they have every right to post them here. I just wonder what happens if someone wants to purchase this at the listed price of $1500 instead of the eBay price of $2500.

 

Enough of this now...Yitsy has been scolded and the subject addressed. Can we go into the new year scandal-free?

 

Brian

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reinhard Proficient

reinhard

Posted
Posted
As for Reinhard...I know the thought that a military sword is mentioned and sold here is abhorrent to the advanced collectors, but there are still some who study these and collect them, and they have every right to post them here. I just wonder what happens if someone wants to purchase this at the listed price of $1500 instead of the eBay price of $2500.

 

Enough of this now...Yitsy has been scolded and the subject addressed. Can we go into the new year scandal-free?

 

Brian

 

Brian, just for the record: This is not about being abhorred by any kind of object. I don't care wether people are collecting stamps, coins, shrinked heads or WWII memorabilia. They are even free to dress themselves as samurai in their spare time and adopt funny names if they like. Asking for translation of the funny signs on their obscure objects they found God-knows-where is OK with me too.

 

What is not OK in a place like this, is trying to sell a katana look-alike made of stainless steel, asking about ten times the price it is worth (if it has any value at all). A blade as far from "traditionally made" as one can imagine; fitted with partially brand-new parts of mounting, assembled and mounted by a guy with two left hands. It is especially not OK if the seller is a person known for his dubious offers for years now and is trying to sell his highly over-priced crap in all places he can find. A guy who never ever contributed to this board in any constructive way.

 

You will have to draw a red line, wether you like it or not. Otherwise NMB will become meaningless and neglectable in the near future. This might not be in the sense of the founder.

 

reinhard

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estcrh Veteran

estcrh

Posted
Posted

It does say

Dedicated to the study and preservation of Japanese swords and fittings
It does not say "dedicated to the study and preservation of TRADITIONALLY made Japanese swords and fittings only" Were do you draw the line? Some people would exclude even modern made nihonto and fittings. Were would this leave people like Ford and the modern nihonto collector? Excluding the collector of non traditionally made Japanese swords would leave a lot of people out also, people who might eventually see the light and start becoming interested in the real thing!! :glee:

 

This board seems to meet the needs of an wide range of Japanese sword enthusiast and much more, there is room here for everyone in my opinion. On the commercial side of things....how would anyone who is interested in any kind of Japanese or samurai related item be able to own these things with out someone on the other end selling them? Sure there are sellers who are purely motivated by profit and could care less for the items they sell but thats the price we have to pay for being able to have any of these items available to own in the first place.

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estcrh Veteran

estcrh

Posted
Posted
Read the small prints, pinhead.

 

reinhard

 

''We welcome anyone who has an interest in the ART of the Japanese Sword. This forum was created for the discussion of Genuine Japanese swords. This includes traditionally made swords,fittings,books,related items,and the history of the Samurai and ancient Japan''

 

THIS INCLUDES TRADITIONALLY MADE SWORDS!!!!...the key word here is INCLUDES...its clear that whoever wrote this meant to show that other swords etc were welcome on the forum as long as they were GENUINE Japanese SWORDS...Non traditionally made swords as long as they are genuine Japanese swords therefore were included also in the thoughts of the person who wrote this introduction to the forum. It does not say...ONLY TRADITIONALLY MADE SWORDS...or...NON TRADITIONALLY MADE SWORDS ARE EXCLUDED. The meaning is quite clear to me at least, I welcome other peoples interpretations of this statement.

 

 

Happy New Years to you to Reinhard.

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peter Proficient

peter

Posted
Posted

hi guys,

be nice,

I think all the members on the board know if someone is interested in anything Japanese in the relm of the sword, ie from a sickle to a cup and i,ve even seen a doll here, the good people here will try their best to give them an answer and links if possible to help. in my novice and humble opinion is what makes this site so good, long may it continue,

As for the advice seeking profiteers, well i,m sure as someone has already said the board will get to know who they are,

i would to thank all the members for their help in the past 2 years for the help i have received ,

may 2011 bring you all the shiney nihonto, (and related items) you desire.

Peter

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Brian

Brian

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Ah, Reinhard does like to stir the pot.

 

Yes he does...sometimes the pot doesn't need to be stirred though :doubt:

The aims of this forum do not need to be debated. It is what it is..and I think it does a damn good job of it. Those that disagree...show me a better online forum open to everyone, or find a door.

People who collect or study military swords have the same right to their hobbies as others do. Deal with it. Prices are what someone will pay, if we start restricting who sells what and at what price, then we are going backwards. I think it's time I restricted access to certain sections of this forum to people who object to them. No need to make it voluntary if it irks so much.

 

Brian

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