tsuba ID challenge

[GRC]

Ok I posted this somewhere else, but the membership in both locations is probably different even though there will be some obvious overlap. We'll see... it's my first time trying it.  

 

Up for a challenge?

Does anyone want to hazard a guess as to the attributions for each of these three tsuba?

They each got a specific attribution from different sources (and one of the members here is the source for one of them), but I'm curious to see what you might suggest for each. This isn't an attempt to pass judgement on anyone's "knowledge", it's an attempt to open a discussion and have some fun with it.

Feel free to hazard a guess on any or all of them #1,2,3.

 

[ROKUJURO]

Two NISHIGAKI on the right, an AKASAKA on the left?

What do I win in case I am correct?

[GRC]

Hard to really know if there is a verifiable "correct" on any of these anyway... so who knows 

Well one has a stronger "most likely correct" than the others... I'll explain later.

 

Solid guesses though Jean  (not that I'm saying they are "correct" or not...yet)  

 

[zanilu]

I will be wrong for sure, not my field of study, but since I am not scared to play the fool :

 

#1 Nishigaki

#2 Akasaka

#3 Owari

 

Ready to be corrected. 

 

Luca

 

[Spartancrest]

Well not this one anyway!    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/188197194660  big money! $47 

[MauroP]

I'm not about to play since I know the book where the first tsuba was taken (but I'm not so sure the attribution proposed by the book is correct indeed). The sekigane which broaden the seppa-dai could suggest that the first tsuba is the oldest... 

[GRC]

@MauroP I'm with you on the attribution... it is one family's recounting of an item that was apparently passed down through multiple generations, so who knows what kind of embellishments were added onto the lore surrounding this piece as the years went by... like grandpa's fishing story where both the fish and the waves keep getting bigger ever time he retells the story  But the claim does line up with that smith's plate texture, so maybe a grain of truth?

 

I also agree that the first one is likely the oldest, and everyone so far seems to be picking up on it as well. 

The third one does appear to have a much smoother surface, and looks to be more black compared to the first two. 

[GRC]

Ok, I suppose there aren't any more people willing to offer a hypothesis, or everyone else is somewhat in agreement with what has already been stated, or just don't know...

 

#1 Apparently made by Higo's Hayashi Matashichi (It's published in the Gustav Jacoby Collection... and if I am reading this google translation correctly, it was once in the possession of the Hosokawa and Nishigaki lineages up until the late 19th century.

 

 

#2 NBTHK papers to ko-Akasaka (lacking in any sort of useful detail, as usual...)

Google translation:

No. 4015180

Certificate of authenticity

1. Tsuba (sword guard) with openwork design of ginger and wild goose motifs, unsigned, Old Akasaka.

Chrysanthemum-shaped iron base with openwork, rounded rim.

The item on the right has been authenticated as a preserved sword fitting by our association as a result of our examination, and this is certified.

May 28, 2019 Japanese Art Sword Preservation Association

  

 

#3 Nishigaki Kanshiro (according to a hakogaki by Sasano. This one is posted on tsuba.info and is listed as 2nd generation Kanshiro in the section on Higo tsuba.

I was given the info through messaging with the owner of the tsuba, but I don't have any images to post of the hakogaki.

I was also informed that this one has some signs of slight layer separation, opening the door to a possible Akasaka connection

 

 

And just to muddy the waters.. here's yet another, actually closest to # 2 in that it has the larger proportioned hitsu-ana.

#4 It's in the Owari section of Tsuba Shusei (the elephant book), and it describes it as: 

65. Myoga and Chidori – A tsuba with a nice texture in a central recess. In an older style. Seppa-dai 3mm, kakumiri 6mm.

 

 

And just to blur things even more... here's one from illustrations of ancient tsuba on uchigatana, by Keichiro Yokota

#5 attributed to Myochin 

it's back to the smaller sized hitsu-ana but it has some alternate motifs at the top and bottom of the seppa-dai (instead of myoga/ginger), and a few other small embellishments in the way the sukashi elements were chiseled.

 

So to sum up... a mish mash of attributions due to some overlapping  physical features between schools and smiths.

So we have published attributions and hakogaki to Higo's Matashichi and Kanshiro, ko-Akasaka, as well as Owari and Myochin.

Then I also got some suggestions elsewhere for Kariganeya Hikobe as well.

 

So the answer is ... still to be determined I suppose 

[FlorianB]

I had already considered it myself, without coming to a conclusion.

Because of the many reproductions of a trendy design it is difficult to determine a school by pictures alone. 
Maybe the pieces in hand would narrow down a decision.

[Spartancrest]

An "Owari"    you might notice the birds are inverted - pointing towards the seppa-dai rather than the mimi.   

https://www.choshuya.co.jp/senrigan/抱茗荷雁金透鍔（鐔）　無銘　尾張/鍔/尾張

 

Afew in this older thread https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/44479-wild-geese-in-the-clouds/

 

Edited 5 hours ago by Spartancrest
More history

[ROKUJURO]

Dale,

your post implies an important question to me: In what direction do the CHIDORI fly when they are depicted that way?

I always assumed the LONGER body part was the tail. Am I wrong?

And there are more TSUBA with similar design out there! One from my little collection - no idea where to locate that one!
 

[MauroP]

There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent. [Mao Zedong]

Maybe the pieces in hand would narrow down a decision? Nope! It isn't science, it's a kind of kult. The experts don't consent even on the kind of birds... (clearly karigane, not chidori, IMHO).

[Bugyotsuji]

Now you have put the cat among the pigeons, Mauro.

 

 

[Lewis B]

Did someone ruffle his feathers?